Oh, he's still here.

Round and round we go.

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

For me, the only reason there is agnosticism in the Modern World is how corrupt and non-sensical the Christian faith is. If there was no Trinity and Resurrection, I bet you will see the number of self-prclaimed atheists/agnostics drop by half.

(June 24, 2021 at 10:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

For me, the only reason there is agnosticism in the Modern World is how corrupt and non-sensical the Christian faith is. If there was no Trinity and Resurrection, I bet you will see the number of self-prclaimed atheists/agnostics drop by half.

Well, that's just flat out wrong then again given who I quoted, par for the course.

(June 24, 2021 at 10:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

For me, the only reason there is agnosticism in the Modern World is how corrupt and non-sensical the Christian faith is. If there was no Trinity and Resurrection, I bet you will see the number of self-prclaimed atheists/agnostics drop by half.

Thanks for sharing that. I think there will ALWAYS be people who acknowledge that they do not know if any gods exist or not...and who acknowledge that there is not enough unambiguous evidence for them to make a meaningful guess.

I also think there will always be people who will blindly guess in one direction or the other.

---

(June 23, 2021 at 2:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

Atheism is simply not being convinced that the claim “a god exists,” is true. It’s really not that more complicated than that. Some atheists assert that gods don’t exist, but it’s not a requirement for atheism.

There are NO requirements for saying, "I am an atheist." All you have to do is to identify as an atheist...and you are an atheist. 

I am not an atheist. I have offered my take on the question...and if you were to give that "take" to almost anyone walking the street, they would say it is an agnostic position...not an atheistic one.

But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)

(June 24, 2021 at 10:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

For me, the only reason there is agnosticism in the Modern World is how corrupt and non-sensical the Christian faith is. If there was no Trinity and Resurrection, I bet you will see the number of self-prclaimed atheists/agnostics drop by half.

Right. The Trinity and the Resurrection account for 50% of the non-belief in the world.

(I was right - it sounds stupid no matter who says it.)

Boru

(June 25, 2021 at 11:14 am)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 10:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: For me, the only reason there is agnosticism in the Modern World is how corrupt and non-sensical the Christian faith is. If there was no Trinity and Resurrection, I bet you will see the number of self-prclaimed atheists/agnostics drop by half.

Thanks for sharing that. I think there will ALWAYS be people who acknowledge that they do not know if any gods exist or not...and who acknowledge that there is not enough unambiguous evidence for them to make a meaningful guess.

I also think there will always be people who will blindly guess in one direction or the other.

---

(June 23, 2021 at 2:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Atheism is simply not being convinced that the claim “a god exists,” is true. It’s really not that more complicated than that. Some atheists assert that gods don’t exist, but it’s not a requirement for atheism.

There are NO requirements for saying, "I am an atheist." All you have to do is to identify as an atheist...and you are an atheist. 

I am not an atheist. I have offered my take on the question...and if you were to give that "take" to almost anyone walking the street, they would say it is an agnostic position...not an atheistic one.

But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)

Hey Frankie, what’s an atheist?

(June 25, 2021 at 12:04 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 25, 2021 at 11:14 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: Thanks for sharing that. I think there will ALWAYS be people who acknowledge that they do not know if any gods exist or not...and who acknowledge that there is not enough unambiguous evidence for them to make a meaningful guess.

I also think there will always be people who will blindly guess in one direction or the other.

---

There are NO requirements for saying, "I am an atheist." All you have to do is to identify as an atheist...and you are an atheist. 

I am not an atheist. I have offered my take on the question...and if you were to give that "take" to almost anyone walking the street, they would say it is an agnostic position...not an atheistic one.

But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)

Hey Frankie, what’s an atheist?

An atheist is someone who identifies as "an atheist."

(June 25, 2021 at 12:09 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 25, 2021 at 12:04 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Hey Frankie, what’s an atheist?

An atheist is someone who identifies as "an atheist."

LOL. Trollololol.

(June 24, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 2:05 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Yes you are. 
If you don't currently believe in a god you're an atheist whether you like it or not. You may be an agnostic atheist but agnosticism is a stance on knowledge, atheism is a stance on belief.

I am not an atheist. I realize counting people like me among your numbers would strengthen your group intelligence values, but we are not atheists.

Every atheist lacks a belief in gods, but not every person without a belief in god is an atheist. Some dictionaries indicate that is how the word is used, but some do not. Prior to the 1950's, just about EVERY dictionary had as its primary definition: Someone who denies the existence of gods. That certainly was the case during the days of Thomas Huxley...who wanted to separate himself from the atheists and espouse a more nuanced, logical stance.

Do you currently believe in a god?

if no then you are an atheist.

You see its binary, either you are a theist i.e .you believe in a god or you are an atheist because you don't. Those are your options and its true whether or not you self identify as an atheist or not.

---

(June 25, 2021 at 11:14 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)

Agnostics are a sub branch of atheist.

Like Catholic is a sub branch of christianity.

(June 25, 2021 at 12:22 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 25, 2021 at 12:09 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: An atheist is someone who identifies as "an atheist."

LOL. Trollololol.

What is your problem?

I am not a troll...and I am not an atheist.

An atheist IS someone who identifies as an atheist. 

Some atheists "believe" there are no gods.

Some atheists "believe" it is impossible for any gods to exist.

Some merely lack a "belief" in any gods.

But one thing EVERY atheist has in common with other atheists...is "they have made a decision to use the descriptor "atheist" to self-apply.

Why the hell do you call me a troll for simply stating the obvious.

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(June 25, 2021 at 12:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(June 24, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I am not an atheist. I realize counting people like me among your numbers would strengthen your group intelligence values, but we are not atheists.

Every atheist lacks a belief in gods, but not every person without a belief in god is an atheist. Some dictionaries indicate that is how the word is used, but some do not. Prior to the 1950's, just about EVERY dictionary had as its primary definition: Someone who denies the existence of gods. That certainly was the case during the days of Thomas Huxley...who wanted to separate himself from the atheists and espouse a more nuanced, logical stance.

Do you currently believe in a god?

if no then you are an atheist.

You see its binary, either you are a theist i.e .you believe in a god or you are an atheist because you don't. Those are your options and its true whether or not you self identify as an atheist or not.

---

(June 25, 2021 at 11:14 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)

Agnostics are a sub branch of atheist.

Like Catholic is a sub branch of christianity.

I do not buy your "binary" bullshit, Whateverthehellyournameis.

And agnosticism is not a subset of atheism.

I do not "believe" any gods exist. I also do not "believe" there are no gods. I do not do any "believing" on the question.

And I do not apply the descriptor "atheist" to myself...so I am not an atheist.

I have no idea of why people like you want to suppose everyone who is not an atheist MUST be designated an "atheist"...but you are all wet.

I personally know many people who are not theists...and who are also not atheists.