Posts: 3265
Threads: 24
Joined: August 9, 2015
Reputation:
27
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm
(June 25, 2021 at 12:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (June 24, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I am not an atheist. I realize counting people like me among your numbers would strengthen your group intelligence values, but we are not atheists.
Every atheist lacks a belief in gods, but not every person without a belief in god is an atheist. Some dictionaries indicate that is how the word is used, but some do not. Prior to the 1950's, just about EVERY dictionary had as its primary definition: Someone who denies the existence of gods. That certainly was the case during the days of Thomas Huxley...who wanted to separate himself from the atheists and espouse a more nuanced, logical stance.
Do you currently believe in a god?
if no then you are an atheist.
You see its binary, either you are a theist i.e .you believe in a god or you are an atheist because you don't. Those are your options and its true whether or not you self identify as an atheist or not.
(June 25, 2021 at 11:14 am)Frank Apisa Wrote: But, as someone once wrote, "An atheist is just an agnostic without the guts to acknowledge he/she is." (Or was it the other way around?)
Agnostics are a sub branch of atheist.
Like Catholic is a sub branch of christianity.
Agnostic and Gnostic Refer to knowledge. Theist and Atheist refer to belief.
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
Posts: 9914
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 3:50 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(June 25, 2021 at 3:45 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, you have no beliefs? You live your live according to a series of blind guesses? Also, you just said in post #66 above that belief and guess aren’t synonymous. So, how are they different? Keep going.
Correct, I have no beliefs. I do make guesses, which I call guesses. I also make estimates, which I call estimates. I do not disguise what I am doing.
Enough with the nonsense questions. I've told you that when the words "believe" or "belief" are used in a discussion about whether gods exist or not...it is a disguise for a guess.
"I believe there is at least one god" IS NOTHING BUT A BLIND GUESS. The word "believe" is used as a disguise.
"I believe there are no gods" IS NOTHING BUT A BLIND GUESS. The word "believe" is used as a disguise.
Okay. Anything else you want to get off your chest, or…?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 198
Threads: 9
Joined: June 19, 2021
Reputation:
2
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 3:54 pm by Frank Apisa.)
(June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 12:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Do you currently believe in a god?
if no then you are an atheist.
You see its binary, either you are a theist i.e .you believe in a god or you are an atheist because you don't. Those are your options and its true whether or not you self identify as an atheist or not.
Agnostics are a sub branch of atheist.
Like Catholic is a sub branch of christianity.
Agnostic and Gnostic Refer to knowledge. Theist and Atheist refer to belief.
Yeah...theists "believe" there is at least one god; atheists "believe" there are none.
Two sides of one coint.
(I know, I know...the atheist fiction comes out here. "All we are doing is lacking 'belief.'")
Horseshit. You people do "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one."
People who call themselves "atheists" are as much "believers" as people who designate themselves theists.
(June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:45 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: Correct, I have no beliefs. I do make guesses, which I call guesses. I also make estimates, which I call estimates. I do not disguise what I am doing.
Enough with the nonsense questions. I've told you that when the words "believe" or "belief" are used in a discussion about whether gods exist or not...it is a disguise for a guess.
"I believe there is at least one god" IS NOTHING BUT A BLIND GUESS. The word "believe" is used as a disguise.
"I believe there are no gods" IS NOTHING BUT A BLIND GUESS. The word "believe" is used as a disguise.
Okay. Anything else you want to get off your chest, or…?
Not really. Are you about to drop the axe?
Posts: 6017
Threads: 51
Joined: September 25, 2018
Reputation:
20
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:03 pm
I don't own a sports franchise, but, I still have the final say in all of their dealings.
Posts: 9914
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:08 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(June 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Agnostic and Gnostic Refer to knowledge. Theist and Atheist refer to belief.
Yeah...theists "believe" there is at least one god; atheists "believe" there are none.
Two sides of one coint.
(I know, I know...the atheist fiction comes out here. "All we are doing is lacking 'belief.'")
Horseshit. You people do "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one."
People who call themselves "atheists" are as much "believers" as people who designate themselves theists.
(June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Okay. Anything else you want to get off your chest, or…?
Not really. Are you about to drop the axe?
How could you possibly know what I believe or don’t believe?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 66524
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Agnostic and Gnostic Refer to knowledge. Theist and Atheist refer to belief.
Yeah...theists "believe" there is at least one god; atheists "believe" there are none.
Two sides of one coint.
(I know, I know...the atheist fiction comes out here. "All we are doing is lacking 'belief.'")
Horseshit. You people do "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one."
People who call themselves "atheists" are as much "believers" as people who designate themselves theists. False by definition. Would you like to pretend that you never gave anyone the impression that you believed atheism was something it was not...again?
I mean..obviously..... I think that you're a piece of shit and I don't believe a word you say, but I'm at least capable of addressing your complaints for what they are. Are you so completely worthless and incompetent that you're incapable of the same?
Are we really in a place where you have nothing to say about atheism proper, but also nothing to say about the thing you think atheism is?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 198
Threads: 9
Joined: June 19, 2021
Reputation:
2
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:32 pm by Frank Apisa.)
(June 25, 2021 at 4:08 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: Yeah...theists "believe" there is at least one god; atheists "believe" there are none.
Two sides of one coint.
(I know, I know...the atheist fiction comes out here. "All we are doing is lacking 'belief.'")
Horseshit. You people do "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one."
People who call themselves "atheists" are as much "believers" as people who designate themselves theists.
Not really. Are you about to drop the axe?
How could you possibly know what I believe or don’t believe?
I cannot possibly KNOW what you "believe" or do not "believe."
Which, in the focus of discussions of whether gods exist or not, means I cannot possibly KNOW which way you blindly guess on the question.
But I do have enough evidence upon which to make a meaningful guess on this. And my guess is that EVERY person who chooses to use the word "atheist" as a descriptor (or part of a descriptor) GUESSES that there are no gods...or that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.
Not supposing that to be the truth would be an insult to the people I know who identify as atheists. I would be saying that they identify as atheist because a lexicographer orders them to do so.
I am assuming they all have the spine not to be dictated to on this issue...as I will not be dictated to.
(June 25, 2021 at 4:08 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (June 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: Yeah...theists "believe" there is at least one god; atheists "believe" there are none.
Two sides of one coint.
(I know, I know...the atheist fiction comes out here. "All we are doing is lacking 'belief.'")
Horseshit. You people do "believe" there are no gods...or you "believe" it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one."
People who call themselves "atheists" are as much "believers" as people who designate themselves theists. False by definition. Would you like to pretend that you never gave anyone the impression that you believed atheism was something it was not...again?
I mean..obviously..... I think that you're a piece of shit and I don't believe a word you say, but I'm at least capable of addressing your complaints for what they are. Are you so completely worthless and incompetent that you're incapable of the same?
Are we really in a place where you have nothing to say about atheism proper, but also nothing to say about the thing you think atheism is?
If you want to ask a question of me...do it a hell of a lot more politely than that...or fuck off.
Posts: 66524
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Wrong again. People who use the atheist descriptor simply do not believe there are any gods. That's all we have in common. Most of us don't need to go through the effort of making guesses one way or the other, we're not capable of believing that there are gods, full stop.
Is your description of atheists based on what you do, as an atheist, and are you so dense as to imagine that everyone everywhere was like you? That would explain why what you believed was a rational product, even if it were laughably wrong. When you figure that one out, I can help you work through the ironic suggestion that you won't be dictated to. I think that it's pretty clear you have been. Dictated to by people whose claims you don't believe and can't explain if asked....... and yet.......
The people who believe in a thing you don't believe in told you that even if they couldn't prove their ghosts and fairies moved in reality...you..at least, couldn't prove them wrong...and you accepted it. Cuck.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 27648
Threads: 521
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:36 pm by brewer.)
He'll never get it. Time to let this thread wither. Maybe Frank can be reborn with a new thread subject.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
Posts: 198
Threads: 9
Joined: June 19, 2021
Reputation:
2
RE: A question about atheistic “beliefs” (opinions, guesses, etc.)
June 25, 2021 at 4:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2021 at 4:41 pm by Frank Apisa.)
(June 25, 2021 at 4:33 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Wrong again. People who use the atheist descriptor simply do not believe there are any gods. That's all we have in common. Most of us don't need to go through the effort of making guesses one way or the other, we're not capable of believing that there are gods, full stop.
Is your description of atheists based on what you do, as an atheist, and are you so dense as to imagine that everyone everywhere was like you? That would explain why what you believed was a rational product, even if it were laughably wrong. When you figure that one out, I can help you work through the ironic suggestion that you won't be dictated to. I think that it's pretty clear you have been. Dictated to by people who's claims you don't believe and can't explain if asked....... and yet.......
The people who believe in a thing you don't believe in told you that even if they couldn't prove their ghosts and fairies moved in reality...you..at least, couldn't prove them wrong...and you accepted it. Cuck.
So far, the main thing I have said about atheists is: The reason people use “atheist” as a self-descriptor or as part of a self-descriptor is because they “believe” that there are no gods…or they “believe” that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.
The bullshit that they are using that descriptor because a dictionary instructs them to do so…is just that…BULLSHIT.
But in your case, I will make an exception, Nudger. You may actually be such a sheep that you use atheist because you are afraid you will insult the publishers of dictionaries if you do not do so.
(June 25, 2021 at 4:34 pm)brewer Wrote:
He'll never get it. Time to let this thread wither. Maybe Frank can be reborn with a new thread subject.
I do "get it", Brewer. Honestly, I do.
The people not getting it are the ones who refuse to see that what I am saying about people who use the word atheist as a descriptor...is dead on.
Oh, thanks for the Kudos for my picture in the Forum pictures thread. Last year and this have aged me considerably...and I enjoy looking at those pix as a remembrance.
|
![[Image: s-l640.jpg]](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DjAAAOSwpIhe1HCM/s-l640.jpg)
