So, I was doing my grandfather a favor by helping him set up some stuff for an event at church. We ended up talking to some people there. He usually goes there by himself, so the number 1 thing being said was: "I didn't know you had a grandson!" Eventually it got to the point where someone asked: "Why don't you bring your grandson with you?" His answer was "Well, he goes to church with his mother", which is an outright lie. I don't know if he knows I'm an atheist, but my dad does, and I know he told some other family members at some point (he has a big mouth), plus we have had some loud discussions over the existence of God in the same house (although my grandfather doesn't have the best hearing), so it is possible that he knows. That doesn't change the fact that telling her I went to church with my mother was just a flat out lie. I don't know why that was necessary. "He isn't really into church" would have been enough. I don't know. So is it more polite to just lie to people at church like that, to avoid an awkward situation? Are people (black women) so aloof that they don't realize some people just aren't interested in church, and that pressing the matter just won't work, and is in fact rude?

Also, in this situation, it was a black church.

From the church perspective, I would think it a 'sin' to hide a 'wandering sheep'. If they do not really believe in this crap, then what are they doing in church in the first place?

IMHO lying is always wrong. Some abide by 'little white lies', but then that sets up a subjective line that can easily be manipulated through rationalization. Lying also sets up an undefined 'honesty window'.

Preachers always lie in church. Seems like a natural thing to me.

(November 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm)IATIA Wrote: From the church perspective, I would think it a 'sin' to hide a 'wandering sheep'.

I don't know what that means.

(November 18, 2011 at 3:59 pm)AthiestAtheist Wrote:

(November 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm)IATIA Wrote: From the church perspective, I would think it a 'sin' to hide a 'wandering sheep'.

I don't know what that means.

You know ... christ is the 'shepherd' of his minions that follow him as sheep and christ would go after the 'wandering sheep' to bring them back to the fold.

This is hardly a situation unique to Churches and religious people.

It can happen any time a person finds them self in a situation where retaining good relations with a social group requires a certain degree of conformation to that groups expectations which may be achieved through the telling of inconsequential white lies. As for you Grandfathers motivation without asking him we can only speculate but I can think of a variety of reasons why he said what he did ranging from a desire to shield you from the disapproval of those asking the questions to a desire to avoid one of those 'loud conversations' about the existence of God you mentioned.

Perhaps there are some people out there who have a strict policy of telling no lies, no matter how small and insignificant or regardless of the consequences, but for most of us the telling of white lies or bending the truth is simply another tool of negotiating the trials and tribulations of life. I can't help but feel that disproportionate criticism is being applied because it involves the religious.

Quote:disproportionate criticism is being applied because it involves the religious.

Well you see, those fuckers are the ones who insist that they are so moral because of their alleged god. It's the hypocrisy, as always.

I think people do too much assuming. Not just black women, but everyone.

Well, we once had a Irish priest who used to lie down in church a lot, pissed out of his mind.

I liked him; he told me he once saw a leprechaun,as he was on his way home from the pub. Funny that,I heard the same thing from a couple of fellas I met met in a pub in Limerick.


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Irish joke;

Sean and Liam are passing the labour exchange and see a sign in the window "TREE FELLERS WANTED"


Liam says to Sean; "what a pity Cormac isn't here"

(November 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm)Milky Tea Wrote: I can't help but feel that disproportionate criticism is being applied because it involves the religious.

Criticism to and from who?

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(November 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm)Milky Tea Wrote: This is hardly a situation unique to Churches and religious people.

It can happen any time a person finds them self in a situation where retaining good relations with a social group requires a certain degree of conformation to that groups expectations which may be achieved through the telling of inconsequential white lies. As for you Grandfathers motivation without asking him we can only speculate but I can think of a variety of reasons why he said what he did ranging from a desire to shield you from the disapproval of those asking the questions to a desire to avoid one of those 'loud conversations' about the existence of God you mentioned.

Perhaps there are some people out there who have a strict policy of telling no lies, no matter how small and insignificant or regardless of the consequences, but for most of us the telling of white lies or bending the truth is simply another tool of negotiating the trials and tribulations of life. I can't help but feel that disproportionate criticism is being applied because it involves the religious.

I never really meant to ask why my grandfather said that, but that's what I was thinking. What I really just wanted to ask whether it is better to lie to people in church about this sort of thing in general. Going by your answer... that would be a yes then?