(April 29, 2022 at 8:17 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(April 29, 2022 at 1:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Doing things that make your constituents lives better isn’t a bribe. It is - literally - your fucking job.

Boru

Hmmm well it does sound like a bribe—we'll give you money if you give us your vote. What meaningful difference is there between forgiving student loans and forgiving auto loans? The end result is financially the same for the individual: Less debt.

Unfortunately, I don't follow political debates enough to know what it all entails. But unless the reform is to make education free, and unless that change is implemented first, then what does forgiving student loans do besides buying votes?

And if your intent is to bribe, then at least offer auto and mortgage alternatives for those who don't have student debt. It'll make your constituents lives better all the same.

Tell me where Biden offered to forgive student debt only for those who vote for him. You may argue that such a move will compel people who didn't vote for him the first time to vote to re-elect him, but if playing a crucial part in saving democracy in Europe isn't enough for Churchill and the Conservative Party to remain in power mere months after VE-Day, then clearly, there's no guarantees.

Also, the big difference between student debt and automotive debt is that the Government doesn't control 92% of automotive debt and thus isn't in a position to forgive it.

(April 29, 2022 at 8:36 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: You may argue that such a move will compel people who didn't vote for him the first time to vote to re-elect him..

Well yes, that is the argument: That if I'm choosing between two candidates, I'm now incentivized to vote for the one offering to forgive my loans.

Interestingly, when it comes to economic decisions we are loss-averse. Meaning that losses weigh more than gains. Hence, why offering to forgive people's debt is far more appealing than offering to give them a free education. Making education affordable ought to be the first thing you fix if this is an issue worth caring about; otherwise you're letting the hole leak water into the boat, and just handing out buckets to everyone.

Also worth noting, "16 Tons" reminded me of another piece of media set somewhere around the same time and place that Biker's apparent absolutist stance on loan repayment resembles: Pete Dexter's novel Paris Trout. It's about a shopkeeper in Georgia in 1949. And one major plot thread involves an auto loan. He loans a car to a black man for a car. When the car gets totaled through no fault of his own a few days later, he demands $1000 repayment. When he doesn't get that money (which is about 80% of the median annual income for a family in his situation in that year), he decides the best thing to do is shake his family down for the money. Because they don't have it either, he and an employee kill his wife and 12-year-old daughter. It's serious enough that for once, the state of Georgia actually has to punish a white man for killing a black person (even if it's a slap on the wrist compared to what we'd expect.)

It's worth noting that it was made into a movie in 1991, and it's only available on old VHS or YouTube rips. I'd post a link to one, but it has some... very period-appropriate language that I'm not sure that would fly here.

Then again, that sort of loan repayment would require a level of proactive action and actual desire to solve problems that Biker would probably balk at.

(April 29, 2022 at 8:55 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(April 29, 2022 at 8:36 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: You may argue that such a move will compel people who didn't vote for him the first time to vote to re-elect him..

Well yes, that is the argument: That if I'm choosing between two candidates, I'm now incentivized to vote for the one offering to forgive my loans.

Interestingly, when it comes to economic decisions we are loss-averse. Meaning that losses weigh more than gains. Hence, why offering to forgive people's debt is far more appealing than offering to give them a free education. Making education affordable ought to be the thing you fix if this is an issue worth caring about; otherwise you're letting the hole leak water into the boat, and just handing out buckets to everyone.

An argument broad enough that you could probably count any campaign promise as attempted bribery.

And, like it or not, sometimes tossing buckets of water overboard is the only thing we can do before we're in a condition to plug up the hole.

(April 29, 2022 at 8:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Also worth noting, "16 Tons" reminded me of another piece of media set somewhere around the same time and place that Biker's apparent absolutist stance on loan repayment resembles: Pete Dexter's novel Paris Trout. It's about a shopkeeper in Georgia in 1949. And one major plot thread involves an auto loan. He loans a car to a black man for a car. When the car gets totaled through no fault of his own a few days later, he demands $1000 repayment. When he doesn't get that money (which is about 80% of the median annual income for a family in his situation in that year), he decides the best thing to do is shake his family down for the money. Because they don't have it either, he and an employee kill his wife and 12-year-old daughter. It's serious enough that for once, the state of Georgia actually has to punish a white man for killing a black person (even if it's a slap on the wrist compared to what we'd expect.)

It's worth noting that it was made into a movie in 1991, and it's only available on old VHS or YouTube rips. I'd post a link to one, but it has some... very period-appropriate language that I'm not sure that would fly here.

Then again, that sort of loan repayment would require a level of proactive action and actual desire to solve problems that Biker would probably balk at.

Considering OLB has already shat on free education as somehow everyone will want the same job apparently ......

In this thread, in general, so much straw. I'll allow some time for introspection, and the pitchfork holders can come forward, as they care to.

Quote:In this thread, in general, so much straw. I'll allow some time for introspection, and the pitchfork holders can come forward, as they care to.

Proceeds to give no examples of strawmen .....Because he can't. Because there are none ...

(April 29, 2022 at 10:55 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:In this thread, in general, so much straw. I'll allow some time for introspection, and the pitchfork holders can come forward, as they care to.

Proceeds to give no examples of strawmen .....Because he can't. Because there are none ...

Fucking stupid. I generally have you on ignore, due to the stupidity of your replies. You're one of the straw throwers. I have you on ignore for that reason- you're just generally acting like a bitch. I'd certainly hate to live inside your head, since the nose part seems to be firmly planted in OLB's ass.

(April 29, 2022 at 8:11 pm)Helios Wrote: Not sure you can sell that 

Exactly.  The only takers on my soul ask ten percent for nothing in return.

(April 29, 2022 at 8:17 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Hmmm well it does sound like a bribe—we'll give you money if you give us your vote. What meaningful difference is there between forgiving student loans and forgiving auto loans? The end result is financially the same for the individual: Less debt.

Unfortunately, I don't follow political debates enough to know what it all entails. But unless the reform is to make education free, and unless that change is implemented first, then what does forgiving student loans do besides buying votes?

And if your intent is to bribe, then at least offer auto and mortgage alternatives for those who don't have student debt. It'll make your constituents lives better all the same.

Federal student aid is forgivable by the federal government and doesn't effect private institutions.  Those loans are outside the topic, which is pertinent to Mitt Romney's pandering blather.