(August 8, 2022 at 8:42 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 7:46 am)Helios Wrote: Pointing to a rare outlier proves nothing .....

So we should listen to you - an obnoxious loudmouthed internet stalker who learned life by Googling everything - rather than a man who lived through the horror and triumphed.....


Yeah ....

Not...

First, you calling me the loudmouth and the one who is obnoxious is an irony for the fucking ages-Second you know fuck all about me but the only thing I need to know about you is your dumbfuck who doesn't know what stalking is...So your opinion on any subject is worth less than dog shit.

Quote:Keep hammering that theoretical nail.......

Actually, it just makes his point stronger just in the opposite way.

Quote:How about - give more people access???

Because that would be just as bad.

Quote:Or does it only not work your way - and you would prefer it doesn' t work???

It doesn't work, either way, Elisjsha Dickens was an exception, not a rule in a totally different scenario than a school shooting ..... 

(August 8, 2022 at 12:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And you seem to think we should rely on something that happens very rarely. There’s a reason there aren’t a lot of Elisjsha Dickens in situations like the one in Houston and it ain’t because of no gun zones. You want a hint, look up the bystander effect and add to it that there’s no guarantee that the “good guy with a gun” will be able to do the deed correctly.

We might as well rely on lighting strikes to kill shooters. Most people are not Elisjsha Dickens nor do they have the dumb luck they did. It was just probable Elisjsha would have been blown away by the shooter. Also were programmed to avoid danger if we believe someone else will handle it or unless we have an overwhelming likelihood of success and while there are times this can be overturned it's not reliable in the slightest.

(August 8, 2022 at 12:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And you seem to think we should rely on something that happens very rarely. There’s a reason there aren’t a lot of Elisjsha Dickens in situations like the one in Houston and it ain’t because of no gun zones. You want a hint, look up the bystander effect and add to it that there’s no guarantee that the “good guy with a gun” will be able to do the deed correctly.

Prove that.

We can' t know - because the good guys don' t carry in the no gun zones. Mr Dickens ignored that mandate and a whole bunch of people are likely alive for that....


But you keep kicking your feet and screaming "no gun zone"!!!!

That really helps....

:dodgy:

Quote:Prove that.

Psychology has already proven this the bystander effect isn't in dispute 

Quote:We can' t know - because the good guys don' t carry in the no gun zones. Mr Dickens ignored that mandate and a whole bunch of people are likely alive for that....

Again Bystander effect and pointing to your fluke is proof of nothing. There is no reason to think the presence of armed people would change anything

Quote:But you keep kicking your feet and screaming "no gun zone"!!!!

That really helps....

As opposed to you who keeps bringing this one instance and trying to make it a trend and a solution when it's neither...

(August 8, 2022 at 2:07 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 12:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And you seem to think we should rely on something that happens very rarely. There’s a reason there aren’t a lot of Elisjsha Dickens in situations like the one in Houston and it ain’t because of no gun zones. You want a hint, look up the bystander effect and add to it that there’s no guarantee that the “good guy with a gun” will be able to do the deed correctly.

Prove that.

We can' t know - because the good guys don' t carry in the no gun zones. Mr Dickens ignored that mandate and a whole bunch of people are likely alive for that....


But you keep kicking your feet and screaming "no gun zone"!!!!

That really helps....

Dumbshit, you're the only person in this thread screaming about no gun zones. I don't give a shit about "no gun zones." They're more or less a lazy form of security theater. Something that only works when everyone is working on the honour system, something we know that mass shooters don't give a shit about following.

What we want is "no gun people". Specifically, people who can't handle the responsibility of holding a life in your hands inherent in wielding an object whose sole purpose is to punch a hole in a living thing and make it be not be a living thing anymore not being allowed to use it. Or at the very least, making it really fucking hard for them to get one. If you can handle that responsibility, go right ahead and shoot responsibly. If not, you don't get a gun.

(August 8, 2022 at 8:01 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 7:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Dicken's gun was notorious for not being locked in a safe. If only the cops can access the school safe, a shooter is going to have several minutes free to kill people.

Boru

Keep hammering that theoretical nail.......

How about - give more people access???

Or does it only not work your way - and you would prefer it doesn' t work???

I’d like something to work, of course. I just remain unconvinced that a gun locked in a safe is going to do much good.

Boru

(August 8, 2022 at 4:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 8:01 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Keep hammering that theoretical nail.......

How about - give more people access???

Or does it only not work your way - and you would prefer it doesn' t work???

I’d like something to work, of course. I just remain unconvinced that a gun locked in a safe is going to do much good.

Boru

I don' t see why it needs to be a rifle.

A .38 special revolver would be fine. In close quarters -15 meters or so - any full sized handgun would be fine. Loaded with glazier bullets to control overpenetration.

They could mount a biometric safe in each room of the school with approved teachers fingerprints as access.

The approved teachers should be volunteers and should get training. 

It would be highly advantageous to NOT disclose which teachers do or do not have access. 

When these shootings occur time is crucial. These monsters need to be disabled by whatever means are necessary ASAP. Just 5 minutes can mean dozens of deaths... This means whoever is on scene has the best chance of stopping things the quickest.

But you' d be fucked if you are unarmed.

It won't work period so you're fucked either way in fact you might very well be more fucked.

(August 8, 2022 at 6:52 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 4:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I’d like something to work, of course. I just remain unconvinced that a gun locked in a safe is going to do much good.

Boru

I don' t see why it needs to be a rifle.

A .38 special revolver would be fine. In close quarters -15 meters or so - any full sized handgun would be fine. Loaded with glazier bullets to control overpenetration.

They could mount a biometric safe in each room of the school with approved teachers fingerprints as access.

The approved teachers should be volunteers and should get training. 

It would be highly advantageous to NOT disclose which teachers do or do not have access. 

When these shootings occur time is crucial. These monsters need to be disabled by whatever means are necessary ASAP. Just 5 minutes can mean dozens of deaths... This means whoever is on scene has the best chance of stopping things the quickest.

But you' d be fucked if you are unarmed.

If you have a safe in each room of the school, then ALL school personnel (not just teachers) would need to have access. For example, if there’s a gun safe in the mop cupboard, it isn’t going to do much good if the nearest ‘approved teacher’ is two corridors away. Similarly, a gun safe in a room with a non-approved teacher would be useless.

You really think all those people - cafeteria workers, administrators, janitors, etc - would volunteer?

Boru