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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 7:02 am
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2023 at 7:03 am by GrandizerII.)
(January 21, 2023 at 6:24 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I can’t help but wonder if some of the studies of blindsight were concocted by sick fucks who just wanted to throw stuff at blind people.
Boru
Yeah, hopefully they were throwing beach balls instead of basketballs, lol.
Anyway, I've been thinking for the past while about blindsightedness and its exact relevance to the topic of consciousness as pertaining to the hard problem. Whatever point Dmitry was trying to make (and I don't know anymore what their point was given their most recent responses here), visual perception (in the strictly neurological sense) does appear to have significant importance functionally (and from an evolutionary perspective), and limitations to that perception are going to hamper the organism's functionality in some way that may matter for survival and/or practical daily life matters. Which is the case for people who are cortically blind. They're not being hampered because they lack visual consciousness, but because of damage to a certain area in the brain that leads to a limited visual perception.
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 12:05 pm
Dmitry, when considering blind sight and evolutionary theory, believed that the one went some way to discrediting the other. I mean, ultimately I think his opinion on the matter wasn't even wrong. That skepticism of evolutionary theory is justified. That's never not true, it's just not true for this particular reason, imo.
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 4:30 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2023 at 4:32 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(January 21, 2023 at 6:24 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I can’t help but wonder if some of the studies of blindsight were concocted by sick fucks who just wanted to throw stuff at blind people.
Boru
blindsight was introduced to modern medical science by police detectives who felt they had good reason to believe some people who use medicalily certified blindness as alibi were, in fact, not blind, because they were observed to be able to walk along obstacle laden path without a walking cane
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 6:16 pm
(January 21, 2023 at 4:30 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (January 21, 2023 at 6:24 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I can’t help but wonder if some of the studies of blindsight were concocted by sick fucks who just wanted to throw stuff at blind people.
Boru
blindsight was introduced to modern medical science by police detectives who felt they had good reason to believe some people who use medicalily certified blindness as alibi were, in fact, not blind, because they were observed to be able to walk along obstacle laden path without a walking cane
Someone once asked the late, great Ray Charles how he was able to get about with no cane. His answer was hard-soled shoes. He was able to hear echoes from obstacles, provided he was walking on a hard floor.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 6:43 pm
(January 21, 2023 at 6:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 21, 2023 at 4:30 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: blindsight was introduced to modern medical science by police detectives who felt they had good reason to believe some people who use medicalily certified blindness as alibi were, in fact, not blind, because they were observed to be able to walk along obstacle laden path without a walking cane
Someone once asked the late, great Ray Charles how he was able to get about with no cane. His answer was hard-soled shoes. He was able to hear echoes from obstacles, provided he was walking on a hard floor.
Boru
My aunt has never used a cane. But watching closely, you will see her hold one finger up to her side, running it along the walls when inside. My cousin (her son) was surprised I had noticed that as it's not terribly noticeable.
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 7:46 pm
(January 19, 2023 at 9:06 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: (January 19, 2023 at 8:34 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Catching a ball isn't a complex problem.
you can't be serious
It's simple enough that we've built robots to do it. So no, not terribly complex as these things go.
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 7:53 pm
(January 21, 2023 at 7:46 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: (January 19, 2023 at 9:06 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: you can't be serious
It's simple enough that we've built robots to do it. So no, not terribly complex as these things go.
Indeed.
"Change was inevitable"
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 7:53 pm
(January 20, 2023 at 8:43 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: We can perform some really really complex tasks like catching an object or avoiding obstacles without qualia.
Neither of those are particularly complex tasks. Sure, they're harder than sitting there looking foolish but nowhere near as tricky as, just as an example, poetry. And the blindsighted people that you seem to love to carry on about only do it very poorly.
If you want a complex task you can explain how anything without qualia is going to mange to use or develop tools. Good luck with that.
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 21, 2023 at 8:04 pm
(January 21, 2023 at 7:53 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: (January 20, 2023 at 8:43 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: We can perform some really really complex tasks like catching an object or avoiding obstacles without qualia.
Neither of those are particularly complex tasks. Sure, they're harder than sitting there looking foolish but nowhere near as tricky as, just as an example, poetry. And the blindsighted people that you seem to love to carry on about only do it very poorly.
If you want a complex task you can explain how anything without qualia is going to mange to use or develop tools. Good luck with that. Indeed even simple robots can avoid bumping into things
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 22, 2023 at 12:57 am
(January 21, 2023 at 8:04 pm)Helios Wrote: (January 21, 2023 at 7:53 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Neither of those are particularly complex tasks. Sure, they're harder than sitting there looking foolish but nowhere near as tricky as, just as an example, poetry. And the blindsighted people that you seem to love to carry on about only do it very poorly.
If you want a complex task you can explain how anything without qualia is going to mange to use or develop tools. Good luck with that. Indeed even simple robots can avoid bumping into things
I'm going to enjoy Dmitry's explanation of why that Arduinobot doesn't have qualia.
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