(July 13, 2023 at 5:53 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(July 13, 2023 at 4:00 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: The really interesting thing for me about this exact point, (I was thinking the other day I should bring it up) ....
society in general gives sentences which are in no way commensurate with what they claim the act is. I know there are 
proposals (in Texas maybe) for life sentences for abortion, but in general, if it's really "murder" they are extraordinarily light. 3 years, 5 years etc. 
They obviously aren't serious about a murder charge. It's something else and clearly they (the legislatures) don't really buy that it's "murdering a baby" or they would all be life sentences or death sentences. 

Thats where i wanted to get to with NX, and he knew it as well. Thats why he avoided adressing it, at all cost (talking about Lincoln. natural abortions, suddenly portraying women as victims of abortionism, practicing forgiveness, etc.)

If he was consistent, he had to ask to punish murder according to what he calls "murder".  He seems to either be a better person than he is representing here , or he hasnt thought it through, or he doesnt care as much about Fetuses, or he is already knowing he is a misogynist liar. The last remaining option is that he really says what he thinks, and life should be a proper punishment. But still he avoided proudly fully presenting his position (which he otherwise loves to do, in every.single.thread.he.created). In this case he also seems to be aware that his position is commonly seen as barbaric.

There is no potential way for him to adress this dilemma at all, without looking like a fool, liar or barbarian, or a combination of the above.

I now buy absolutely nothing he/she says. 
It's nothing but a psychotic freaky attention whore.

(July 12, 2023 at 8:58 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: It all goes back to Marx and his Militant Atheism, and then the Promotion of Abortion by Bolshevik Communists in Russia. That's where all these horrors of Abortion began and why more than 2 BN children have had to be killed before the world learns the Truth.

You claim how societies where abortion is forbidden are much better than those where they are legal Soviet Union.

But the reality is that the Soviet Union banned abortion since 1932. So so the Soviet Union lived by the ideals you preach and yet you use them as a bad example. In other words, you are eating your own shit.

So knowing you, you will simply ignore how wrong you are and talk about some other topic like who hanged Jesus.

Oh pls. I never claimed to be a woman anywhere. Where you going by my display pic when you thought that? That's a picture of Mother Mary, whom every Catholic loves. What on earth are you talking about, Bucky, when you say: "Yesterday you said you were woman."? Nishant is a guy's name, in case you don't know. A male Indian name. My real name, and I'm not a woman, and have never claimed to be. I post with my real name, unlike many of you, and so I think it is absurd when you falsely accuse me of being or claiming to be a woman. I am not and have never claimed to be in any context anywhere. I am a male Investment Banker in my 30s with an interest in Theology. 

But I can already see I'm not going to be treated fairly by you. That's fine. As for me, I intended to start a website for some time, and finally did it this year some months back. The next steps would be to write a book on these issue and then start a forum. Atheists would be welcome to post and ask any doubt or question they have, and we Theists would answer, but there would be some general rules against cussing, blasphemy, ad hominem etc, applicable to all, just as there are different general rules here. Now, where were we?

@ Fake Messiah. I know they did that, and they did because of Demographic Issues, not out of Moral Convictions, not because they suddenly became Pro-Life Christians or something. The real conclusion you ought to draw from that history is abortion leads to demographic problems in time, which is why the Communists went back and forth on them. Yet what I said about the Bolshevik Communists being the first to legalize and promote abortion is 100% right.

I just noticed my 30 days are up, as I joined on June 12, and its July 13 today. Astreja, as for Eucharistic Miracles, you can read this from Lanciano, and the Scientific Investigations conducted on it. They happened in response to a "doubting Thomas", a Priest who doubted that Jesus Christ really was present in the Holy Eucharist: "In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions: ... The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin)."

Taken from: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/...ciano.html

(July 13, 2023 at 6:41 am)Nishant Xavier Wrote: @ Fake Messiah. I know they did that, and they did because of Demographic Issues, not out of Moral Convictions, not because they suddenly became Pro-Life Christians or something. The real conclusion you ought to draw from that history is abortion leads to demographic problems in time, which is why the Communists went back and forth on them. Yet what I said about the Bolshevik Communists being the first to legalize and promote abortion is 100% right.

The conclusion is that you do not know what you are talking about. Many countries have legal abortions and yet do not suffer from demographic decline. The solution is not to force women to give birth but to give couples initiatives, better healthcare, better pays, let gays adopt, and so on.

Banning abortion was always a sign of barbarism. Like you, you don't give a shit how many women will die and suffer when abortion gets banned because you are a narrow-minded religious freak who just wants to please his nonexistent god.

You haven't studied the issue of abortion and demography, and falling fertility rates at all, I see: "Across the developed world, fertility rates have consistently been declining to below replacement level, with significant implications for society – and particularly for human rights. In simple terms, nations need an average birth rate (total fertility rate or TFR) of just over two children per woman (2.1 TFR) to maintain their populations. But half of the world’s population now lives in countries below this level, according to a 2017 estimate by the UN." https://www.ibanet.org/Declining-fertili...man-rights

Your lies about me I will pass over in silence. Of course I care when women suffer as I care when babies suffer. We Pro-Lifers love them both and want to help as many women as possible, and save as many baby's lives as possible. Since you are ok with killing children, I don't expect you to be fair to me. That's fine.

"Abstract
PIP: There is consensus among demographers that, in countries where abortion is illegal, its magnitude cannot be estimated directly and can be estimated indirectly only with great difficulty. Because of the difficulty of quantifying the practice of abortion in Mexico, its occurrence is neglected in discussions of the country's demographic problems. But apart from issues of women's rights or health consequences, it is necessary that the general population, politicians, and opinion leaders assess abortion in its relationship to fertility and population growth. Study in numerous countries with varying socioeconomic characteristics suggests that no country can achieve a population growth rate near 1% without recourse to induced abortion as a complement to effective contraceptive usage. Experience shows that no country has achieved a total fertility rate under 2.2 without abortion." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12158052/

What exactly is your point about fertility rates? I'm not seeing a point there.

(July 12, 2023 at 10:34 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: Lol.

(July 11, 2023 at 7:32 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: It sounds like god is punishing the souls of aborted babies or babies god itself kills. 

Why would god create an after life one step up from hell and a step down from paradise just to closet dead baby souls?

What do you think X. Does it sound like a punishment to you?

(July 12, 2023 at 7:39 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(July 11, 2023 at 9:18 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: Nishant XavierHymn4n, they have Perfect Natural Happiness, and a Possibility of even Super-Natural Hapiness. Doesn't sound so bad to me. Abortionists and those who promote and support baby-killing should consider their own Children might rise up at the Judgment and ask God to condemn them. And what do you think God would do if those Babies asked him to, Hymn4n? If one has committed an abortion, or supported it, the right thing is to ask God, and one's children, for forgiveness. There is no right to take life. There is a duty to protect life, especially the lives of one's own innocent children. That might be hard, but it is the Truth. The Truth will set you free.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Xavier

It’s so refreshing to speak to a believer who replies with honesty.

I’m glad we both came to the same conclusion that aborted unwanted babies are far better off being aborted rather than being born into a world controlled by gods appointed enemy Satan/Lucifer/Devil.

“they have Perfect Natural Happiness”
“[b]Doesn't sound so bad to me”[/b]
“[b]and a Possibility of even Super-Natural Hapiness.”[/b]

I agree, sounds like paradise LITE with the possibility of heaven parole.

Let me ask you another question and I hope you take the time to think about your answer.

In my case, someone who has never believed and wasn’t given the evidence that god gave you that it exists , that me being aborted would have been far better for me than being born to a world Satan controls, never believing and being tortured for all eternity for not believing?

Seriously think about it and I am appreciative for your thoughts. 

Angrboda: the point is Abortion causes demographic problems in time. Even those who were neutral or non-committal to any moral position on the abortion issue recognized this effect of it.

Hymn4n, I answered your question. Children saved in infancy, like those Baptized, go to Heaven, by the Pure Grace of Christ given in Baptism. They have no merits of their own but will enjoy Heavenly Happiness. Those however, who have received Baptism, and also do Good Works, like adults can, will receive a higher degree of happiness for every good work they did. That's because every Good work done in the State of Grace earns further merits. This is also why suffering is not meaningless in Catholic Christianity, whereas under Atheism it is; every good work, every suffering borne out of love, like a kind of martyrdom, will be rewarded, just as the Martyr's Crown I mentioned in Rev 2:10 is. The more and more good works a person does, the more suffering he/she endures righteously, the higher and higher will be the Reward in Heaven upon death. Thus, the Lord said: "Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the Crown of Life".

Does that answer your question? As for evidence, pls see the link to that website I gave on the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano. We have as much evidence for Christ's Power today as those who witnessed His Miracles when He walked on Earth, if not even more, after 2000 years of Eucharistic Miracles, well documented Miracles like those worked by Our Lady of Fatima etc, the Miracle of the Sun seen by 70,000 eyewitnesses on October 13,1917, in Fatima, Portugal. It confounded the Marxist press and led to some accepting/embracing Catholic Christianity.

"The tissue revealed further that it belonged to a person who had gone through intense pain, experiencing extended periods of time where he could barely breathe, had immense strain put on the heart (both common feature of crucifixion) and had been stabbed in the left side. What was most insane was that despite the fact this should have killed the person, the tissue showed signs of being ‘alive’.

This was evidenced by intact white blood cells being found in the tissue. This showed the heart sample was pulsating as elsewise the white blood cells would have disintegrated roughly 15 minutes outside of a living body.

Interesting fact: The Archbishop who commissioned the research was none other than the now Pope Francis!"

Taken from: https://youth.rcdow.org.uk/voices/5-incr...-25-years/