(August 24, 2023 at 1:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 24, 2023 at 1:08 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: @thunp

We basically agree on everything except me overstating the importance of looks.  

What would I suggest?
First, that it's recognised as a real issue and not just treated as something amusing and /or trivial.

Second, that it's recognised that it's not a question of moral blame or character failure, but that ugliness, neurodiversity, and social ineptiude are bad luck problems (like physical disability).  And also understood just how much of a killer and damage to the economy and society loneliness truly is.

Third, I would suggest that educational establishments recognise bullying more, even treating lookism bullying as a hate act like racism, ableism and homophobia, and nip that stuff early.

Fourth, I would suggest awareness raising of the issue in an effort to encourage parents, schools, and the state to organise appropriate early intervention counselling and therapy for young people who show signs of being socially and romantically ostracised for their looks and social ineptitude.

Fifth, in socialised medical states (like the UK) I would encourage loneliness to be seen as a serious health issue, increase mental health provision and early intervention for adults, improve social prescriptions, and encourage a more serious consideration of ugliness in terms akin to scarring, disfigurement, gender dysphoria, etc and have more surgical and medical interventions available.

Sixth, aim to destigmatise pseudo-relationships, like objectum relationships, chatbots, sexdolls, etc. through media representation and the such like.  Also put investment into the betterment of companion bot/ hologram/ AI/ VR technology.

Seventh, legalise and regulate sex work.

Eighth, clamp down on the sexist hatespeech and radicalising rhetoric of incel groups using whatever laws are appropriate.

I'm open to other suggestions.

We only disagree on the weight you're giving to physical appearance. Speaking for myself, I'm physically disabled in such a way that imparts a noticeable limp. In the ten years since I developed my AVN, two lovely relationships lasting a total of five years. There's a couple of reasons for this: 1) I don't take rejection personally; 2) I don't get discouraged because I understand the odds are against me; 3) I understand that women are real people with real feelings and may simply not find me attractive.

I could easily have been an incel as a youth. Absolutely no success with gals in high school, bullied as a boy due to being the new kid all the time (8 schools in 12 years). But I got and heeded some good advice, and my luck with gals got a lot better.

I think incels place entirely too much emphasis on looks, sex, and sexual objectification, and refuse to see women as people; women exist to serve male entitlements. And women can smell a shitty attitude a mile away.

(August 24, 2023 at 1:30 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Blaming women for men who are less than attractive for their inability to find a sex partner is pretty fucking sexist.

It doesn't matter what a woman looks like - she doesn't owe any guy sex. Period, end of story.

You are rightthere on the line of saying that incels are some group that needs hugs....even though the talk and actions of some has been violent, scary, and is not to be accepted or excused away.

(August 24, 2023 at 1:32 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I knew a guy who took rule no1 and 2 to heart so much that it was his entire mo to ask 100 girls out every night.  I never saw him without a date.  He was the shortest, ugliest, scrunchy face looking motherfucker I've ever met, and he got more play 1-10 than me by an order of magnitude.  He wasn't even a nice enough guy to go with rule three - he was a douchebro before it was cool to be a douchebro, and it didn't seem to matter.

Honestly, girls aren't that picky.

Once, I saw him with two dates.......motherfucker!

(August 24, 2023 at 3:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: True.  I believe that the female term for incel is "bitch" for example.  I've met..maybe, one or two?  It's funny to think back about which (if any) of our romantic partners would fit later terms and movements.  I'm pretty sure I slept with all the incels I met, male or female.  I remember one guy in particular seemed weird and quirky to me, back then...but today I'd probably just make fun of him until he cried in his marvel themed cup.

(August 25, 2023 at 5:53 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: From my limited reading on loneliness it seems that it is more harmful than smoking 10 cigarettes a day, and is often connected to all kinds of deleterious lifestyle issues like addiction and suicide.  It's a big personal and social problem.

I also note that chronic emotional loneliness seems basically incurable.  It might well be that if you're ostracised during your formative years then your brain gets irreparably damaged.

I really do think this issue need to be taken more seriously and addressed with greater sympathy and a mature harm-reduction approach.