(August 29, 2023 at 4:48 am)WinterHold Wrote:

(August 28, 2023 at 9:13 am)Moebius Wrote: What!? Vice and Virtue ministry? That's some Orwellian stuff right there. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so frightening. I feel awful for those girls, it's really a shame.

?
Your Saudi allies had a similar ministry through their history, I didn't see your likes criticizing it.
The west loved Saudies and even invaded Iraq protecting them.

Heck, the west manufactured Saudies and their currency too !

What a hypocrite

I don't think I'm a hypocrite. But Orwell was English, which is interesting. Having a ministry like that is very totalitarian, and Europeans/Eurasians are the past masters of totalitarianism. So I guess you do have a point in a roundabout way. I'm not surprised you think I'm an American since this is an American forum, but I'm not. I'm actually Scandinavian. My point is really that I feel those girls have been treated cruelly and unjustly.

(August 29, 2023 at 4:57 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(August 29, 2023 at 4:56 am)WinterHold Wrote: They're ignorant and their brains are hardy, notice that they kicked America and Soviets before !
Their deeds though are so backward; they must learn that Islam is not the backward religion they think about; Muslims created the guitar's 6th string and the algorithm !

But also, invader's who are imperialists are shittier and don't mind allying with trash to hold their order.

Islam seems 'backwards' (your term) to me.

The people who explained to you are probably "the cause".
Islam is a way of life stating that a person is a mere creation, they're here on this earth to be tested, the exam maker is documenting every move they do; even their thoughts.

A direct verse from the Quran (the exam maker's guide for humans) says about life:

Quote:Sura 67, The Quran:
https://quran.com/67?startingVerse=2

(2) ˹He is the One˺ Who created death and life in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving.

Probably, you think that this celestial guide -the Quran- is trashing women, but surprisengly the author of this guide -God- says:

Quote:Sura 49, The Quran:
https://quran.com/49?startingVerse=13

(13) O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.1

In another Sura he says:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=32

(32) And do not crave what Allah has given some of you over others. Men will be rewarded according to their deeds and women ˹equally˺ according to theirs. Rather, ask Allah for His bounties. Surely Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of all things.

Notice that this Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. Until this day, there are humans who deny the rights of women ! including so many Muslims who ignored verses like this.

The Quran is not backward. What is backward is the books called "Hadith books".
You must ask whoever speaks to you from Islam about their source: is it a Quranic verse, or a Hadith ?

It's all backward Winter.

Thoughts and prayers.

I read the quaran a couple times, visited a mosque, spoke to some Islamic theology students, watched some Islamic apologetic debates, and learned a little about Islamic countries.

Islam seems to me clearly false and immoral.

(August 30, 2023 at 12:14 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Islam seems to me clearly false and immoral.

What is immoral about it?

(August 30, 2023 at 9:22 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(August 30, 2023 at 12:14 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Islam seems to me clearly false and immoral.

What is immoral about it?

It says gay sex is wrong. That's a good start.

It refuses to treat females as full human beings

(August 30, 2023 at 9:38 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: It refuses to treat females as full human beings

Another good point.

(August 30, 2023 at 9:36 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(August 30, 2023 at 9:22 am)Angrboda Wrote: What is immoral about it?

It says gay sex is wrong.  That's a good start.

What is immoral about saying gay sex is wrong?

Saying gay sex is wrong harms gay people (and thus society) who might grow up in an Islamic household and have inculcated within them an undue sense of shame or guilt. They may try to change or affect their sexuality or behaviour to fit in with this teaching. It also causes offence without justifying reason.

Additionally, by saying gay sex is wrong in an authoritative text or within an authoritative institution makes it far more likely that people will act on that belief in all manner of harmful ways, from voting for politicians who run on a platform of bigotry and try to enact discriminatory laws all the way to Islamic societies throwing gays off rooftops. Thus saying gay sex is wrong increases the likelihood of increased suffering in the same sort of way saying smoking is good for you or Jews are evil does.

It is reprehensible speech for all these reasons.