Quote:He threw all he hand on the mountains the sands on Iran.

1) I know people who can live one year with the money spent on one of these bombs. So don’t get me wrong but I have no idea what this man is doing or trying to achieve there and
 
2) (And this is the interesting part) We are in a climate crisis. We have the means to stop and reverse the effects of climate change if we want to but look at what’s happening: Everybody is looking for more ways to produce more weapons to increase their military budget.
 
This might be a short term response to an increasingly aggressive Russia and China’s dream of “World domination by 2025). I am not saying that the military is completely useless but look at us. Look at what we are doing.
 
/So it’s more than “Understanding the message correctly”. That’s not what I am saying but the core of most genuine spirituality is that “humanity is not in its right mind” and to this we might add:
- Yes maybe some of the things I’m saying can see crazy at times. But what’s really insane is not that. Thinking that humanity can continue business as usual without embracing some sort of deeper / spiritual transformation, that’s a completely crazy thing to say if you ask me. 

Quote:- I agree with all of that but brains is not the only way to see things. Many religious people too are doing just that, they read and read and read and get they get to a point in which they know everything but are not able to achieve anything. People like me we believe in “spirit”. In the Sufi approach they mention something called “the inner eye”. So sometimes you just happen to be attracted to some sort of stuff and that stuff turns out to be beneficial to you as a person. So the next time something seems “to resonate” you do it all over again and see that this too has been beneficial.
 
See: Most of us believe that there is an intelligence that is greater than our own intelligence. So while having intellectual endeavors ourselves, we sort of accept that there is always a bigger intelligence at work so usually we don’t feel like taking things too far if you see what I mean. 
 
So being humble is very important in these issues. So starting with my own culture, I want to see religious people being more humble. In fact it is when I don’t see this humility that I start doubting somebodies involvement in spiritual issues. Personally that’s when I start believing that this or that person are what the Koran defines as “Mushrik” someone who has idols other than the Universe itself. Someone who is in love perhaps with his/her own intellect, his/her ego self, his/her own self-created dogmas or false belief systems…

Quote:See: Most of us believe that there is an intelligence that is greater than our own intelligence. So while having intellectual endeavors ourselves, we sort of accept that there is always a bigger intelligence at work so usually we don’t feel like taking things too far if you see what I mean.  

Quote:I agree with all of that but brains is not the only way to see things. Many religious people too are doing just that, they read and read and read and get they get to a point in which they know everything but are not able to achieve anything. People like me we believe in “spirit”. In the Sufi approach they mention something called “the inner eye”. 

(August 10, 2026 at 12:46 am)Deesse23 Wrote: They all did it all wrong, unlike Leo. Leo does it all right, because he has the right spirit!

Quote:“What specific, concrete things have been beneficial to you? What specific, concrete benefits have you realized?”

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- Well I used to look down on people you know
 
Being an educated / moderately intellectual person I used to harbor a lot of anger toward people who support populist leaders for instance. Then I read the work of Swami Sri Yukteswar (The Holy Science). Did some research on the Hindu concept of Yugas (or energy ages).
 

 
In a nutshell this approach states that humanity goes through some energy ages. In the lowest age (or Kali Yuga 1200 BC – 1900 AD) humans are at the lowest energy level. They are basically animals and act accordingly with their animal instincts. In our age (Dwapara Yuga which has begun in 1900 AD and will last for some two millennia) we are in the Energy age. People are still very Ego oriented but they kow how to manipulate energies, use different technologies to their advantage and have some (in fact much greater) understanding of spiritual stuff. Since their energy level is higher things like the French Revolution, the Bill of human rights, women’s rights, LGBT rights are more likely to happen.
 
But since we are at the very beginning of this “higher energy age”, the effects of Kali Yuga (or animal nature age) are not completely gone. So when I see M…s supporting Flavio Bossonaro and the Agro-Business lobby in Brazi cleverly manipulating all these masses through classical media and social media-trolls I don’t feel anger and aversion anymore. There has been this inner change inside me. At leat I know why this is happening so my feelings toward these events are more neutral now.
 
/But don’t get me wrong: I still believe in working in favor of democracies and free societies and I even believe that we may be at a crossroad of some sort. Hence, I believe that spiritual people need to be the smartest among us if you see what I mean. Again all of this is “in a nutshell” but I believe that spiritual people need to support and enhance things like the 1776 Declaration of Independence and democratic values like that. And (still in a nutshell) I don’t see how truly spiritual people can end up supporting some erratic leader who clearly doesn’t believe in values based on the idea of the greatness and importance of human beings. I think I must have made all of this very clear by now.
 

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Quote:“Ah yes, the "spirituality" of misanthropy.  Great pitch there, certainly true and no possible way it might go askance.  Definitely need some more of that "spirituality" for what ails us, it's been doing so well thusfar....... what with both the us and russia in the grips of a revanchist christian nationalism leveraging that exact and explicit message as it's rallying cry.
 
Remember when the other poster explained you were an inch rather than miles away from Them™....?”

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- This is not a false statement. When you give up critical thinking entirely you become vulnerable to becoming a dogmatic person (like all the rest). So yes, spirituality is still a demanding issue which is why I respect the agnostic / atheist approach. What I am saying is that atheists too can become more compassionate human beings if they choose to do so. All that I am saying is that there is a certain sense of urgency. Like we need to respect our planet for instance. Most people in the environment movement are atheist. SO that’s what I am emphasizing.
 

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Quote:“I don't think that suggesting we use something other than our brains is a prudent strategy for dealing with complex geopolitical disputes, ascendant reich wing dictatorships, or the ethics of armed conflict.  Nor do I think that relying on gods to solve human problems has ever produced a single result.  It doesn't really matter what most people believe.  Maga thinks this greater intelligence is on their side.  Putins orthodox nutters think the same.  Ukraines orthodox nutters, ditto.  Irans islamic nutters...very very much so.  You suffer from the same affliction, you think that what you have to offer is The Right Divine Wisdom.  There's that inch again.  You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.”

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- Yes, and this is when you need to let me in here. I am the one who can challenge them and tell them: “Wait a minute, how is this related to God? This isn’t about God this is your own Ego who is talking. SO would you please shut up!”
 

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Quote:“Did you want to talk about a philosophy of war and conflict or a theosophy of war and conflict? Do you believe that a country a being invaded by a country b has a moral duty...not a "spiritual duty"...a moral one.....to allow country b to fund it's war machine so long as countries c-z want or need their products?”

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The thread has evolved into something else. But generally speaking: There is morality in War. So how are all these “Holy Warriors” acting like in a situation of conflict we can hit however we want, however we want, do all the harm we want and do that as much as we want as if we weren’t even human beings to begin with?
 
[hide]
 
Desse23:
 

Quote:“While you are not religious, you put the very same lack of critical thinking on display. Another piece of evidence for my claim that you arent a "mile" but an "inch" (and some personal revelation or a charlatan with charisma) away from "them" believers you are looking down upon. Your religion is "spirituality", face it.
 
Evidence: What most believe does not make it true, does it? But it makes you feel comfortable in your unfounded belief, doesnt it?”

 
[Hide]
 
- The only possible “founded” belief system here is science and mathematics. I’m not a scientist or mathematician. I’ve said that since the very beginning.
 
Your question about “comfortable belief systems” is a question everybody should be asking all the time.
 
See: In the place where I live there are those “comfortable” people who go on and feed stray dogs with raw meat and belief this is a “good” action that supports those “living beings). There is truly a movement like that in my country and highly educated and even well-off people are adhering to it.
 
Now what I see as “true spirituality” is (in my experience) the opposite of that. We deal with very uncomfortable questions and seek answers to these questions. Just like philosophers. So I know this is an atheist forum but doing that is not exactly a crime is it?
 

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Quote: 
“Call me a hidebound old reactionary with cruel yet handsome features if you must, but if my surgeon tells me that she’s relying on her Inner Eye rather that having read and read and read medical texts, I’ll be out the door so fast the air will crackle.
 
Boru”

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- That is correct. The mind is often described as a cutting instrument. It is here to help us operate in this world. It solves the problems of this world because “The universe was written in the language of mathematics”. I am talking about inner issues (which do not even exist if we were to ask you). For that you need what Christians call “The Holy Spirit” something inside you that helps you understand spiritual issues.
 
I mean you asked “The Method” this here is the method. If those F…s who carried out 9/11 had acted according to this method (which is a universal method in all forms of true spirituality) they would know that airplanes cannot land on skyscrapers. Are you with me?
 

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Quote:“They all did it all wrong, unlike Leo. Leo does it all right, because he has the right spirit!”

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- There is a nuance here: Access to information has become very easy in our age. Back when I was 18 we were in the books age. Not all titles where available everywhere. If you wanted to read foreign titles you had to speak English. So all of a sudden you were limited with books that are more relative to your respective culture (provided that these were not forbidden by the authorities etc.)
 
Now you can expose yourselves to all of these ideas while you are cooking or Jogging etc. So it’s so much easier to pick the “good stuff” and leave all the useless and/or misleading stuff outside.
 
/This doesn’t even need to be a religious Journey. Being Atheists, you can decide to explore these ideas as well. All that you need is this philosophical approach and interest in these subjects (which none of you seems to have)
 

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Quote:If those F…s who carried out 9/11 had acted according to this method (which is a universal method in all forms of true spirituality) they would know that airplanes cannot land on skyscrapers. 

Quote:Are you with me?

(August 11, 2026 at 11:35 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Desse23:

Quote:“They all did it all wrong, unlike Leo. Leo does it all right, because he has the right spirit!”

 

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- There is a nuance here: Access to information has become very easy in our age. Back when I was 18 we were in the books age. Not all titles where available everywhere. If you wanted to read foreign titles you had to speak English. So all of a sudden you were limited with books that are more relative to your respective culture (provided that these were not forbidden by the authorities etc.)
 
Now you can expose yourselves to all of these ideas while you are cooking or Jogging etc. So it’s so much easier to pick the “good stuff” and leave all the useless and/or misleading stuff outside.
 
/This doesn’t even need to be a religious Journey. Being Atheists, you can decide to explore these ideas as well. All that you need is this philosophical approach and interest in these subjects (which none of you seems to have)  

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(August 11, 2026 at 11:35 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:  
Desse23:
 

Quote:“While you are not religious, you put the very same lack of critical thinking on display. Another piece of evidence for my claim that you arent a "mile" but an "inch" (and some personal revelation or a charlatan with charisma) away from "them" believers you are looking down upon. Your religion is "spirituality", face it.
 
Evidence: What most believe does not make it true, does it? But it makes you feel comfortable in your unfounded belief, doesnt it?”

 

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- The only possible “founded” belief system here is science and mathematics. I’m not a scientist or mathematician. I’ve said that since the very beginning.
 
Your question about “comfortable belief systems” is a question everybody should be asking all the time.
See: In the place where I live there are those “comfortable” people who go on and feed stray dogs with raw meat and belief this is a “good” action that supports those “living beings). There is truly a movement like that in my country and highly educated and even well-off people are adhering to it.

---

 

(August 11, 2026 at 11:35 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Now what I see as “true spirituality” is (in my experience) the opposite of that. We deal with very uncomfortable questions and seek answers to these questions. Just like philosophers. So I know this is an atheist forum but doing that is not exactly a crime is it?

Quote:Being an educated / moderately intellectual person I used to harbor a lot of anger toward people who support populist leaders for instance. Then I read the work of Swami Sri Yukteswar (The Holy Science). Did some research on the Hindu concept of Yugas (or energy ages).
 

 In a nutshell this approach states that humanity goes through some energy ages. In the lowest age (or Kali Yuga 1200 BC – 1900 AD) humans are at the lowest energy level. They are basically animals and act accordingly with their animal instincts. In our age (Dwapara Yuga which has begun in 1900 AD and will last for some two millennia) we are in the Energy age. People are still very Ego oriented but they kow how to manipulate energies, use different technologies to their advantage and have some (in fact much greater) understanding of spiritual stuff. Since their energy level is higher things like the French Revolution, the Bill of human rights, women’s rights, LGBT rights are more likely to happen.

(August 11, 2026 at 11:35 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Angrboda:
 

Quote:“What specific, concrete things have been beneficial to you? What specific, concrete benefits have you realized?”

- Well I used to look down on people you know
 
Being an educated / moderately intellectual person I used to harbor a lot of anger toward people who support populist leaders for instance. Then I read the work of Swami Sri Yukteswar (The Holy Science). Did some research on the Hindu concept of Yugas (or energy ages).
 

 
In a nutshell this approach states that humanity goes through some energy ages. In the lowest age (or Kali Yuga 1200 BC – 1900 AD) humans are at the lowest energy level. They are basically animals and act accordingly with their animal instincts. In our age (Dwapara Yuga which has begun in 1900 AD and will last for some two millennia) we are in the Energy age. People are still very Ego oriented but they kow how to manipulate energies, use different technologies to their advantage and have some (in fact much greater) understanding of spiritual stuff. Since their energy level is higher things like the French Revolution, the Bill of human rights, women’s rights, LGBT rights are more likely to happen.
 
But since we are at the very beginning of this “higher energy age”, the effects of Kali Yuga (or animal nature age) are not completely gone. So when I see M…s supporting Flavio Bossonaro and the Agro-Business lobby in Brazi cleverly manipulating all these masses through classical media and social media-trolls I don’t feel anger and aversion anymore. There has been this inner change inside me. At leat I know why this is happening so my feelings toward these events are more neutral now.
 
/But don’t get me wrong: I still believe in working in favor of democracies and free societies and I even believe that we may be at a crossroad of some sort. Hence, I believe that spiritual people need to be the smartest among us if you see what I mean. Again all of this is “in a nutshell” but I believe that spiritual people need to support and enhance things like the 1776 Declaration of Independence and democratic values like that. And (still in a nutshell) I don’t see how truly spiritual people can end up supporting some erratic leader who clearly doesn’t believe in values based on the idea of the greatness and importance of human beings. I think I must have made all of this very clear by now.