(January 31, 2012 at 11:55 pm)Zakir_250 Wrote:

(January 31, 2012 at 11:51 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

Zakir Wrote:Why do you think he wins all of his debates against Atheists?

Who told you THAT Mr W. Craig??

Erm no. I actually have watched his debates. Go to comments on youtube and they all point to one winner.

See us theists are actually remembered for our logically thinking and good debating skills.

Oh and for the Peace be upon him thing, that's our way of paying respect to our prophet. A man who was considered as the Greatest man to ever live by many historians and famous people.

Comments from random youtube users do not back up your assertions about Mr Craigs authority on these matters.

And seriously what kind of reaction did you expect? You come to an atheist forum and supply link after link of assertion and random 'witnesses' then expect us to all fall into line. Well sorry mate, I need to see evidence! And to clarify for you, evidence means observation and/or measurement that can be repeated in a controlled environment. Nothing you have said or shown even comes close to what a reasonable and rational person would consider as evidence.

I find it quite telling that statistically the more educated a person is the less likely they are to believe in a deity in the traditional sense. That tells me all I need to know....namely that the devoutly religious are not as smart as the rest of us

(February 1, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Zakir_250 Wrote:

(February 1, 2012 at 6:45 pm)Hitchslap Wrote: Because I'm a rational person and I don't buy the first fairy tale I'm told as a child?

And I dont need your damn permission to be taken seriously.

I'm about to message Rayaan for some help debunking you guys.

I simply cannot answer 10 people at one time.

You, simply, cannot answer any people at any time.

(February 1, 2012 at 8:13 pm)Zakir_250 Wrote: Actually Zakir Naik has refuted this claim. Jesus was just showing his disciples not to worry because he was the way, truth and life like any prophet was.

This is part of the frustration I have in discussing scripture with Islamo-Christians. I read what's there. They each read what fits their faith. "Well, when it says X, it really means Y". No interpretation is too obtuse, no verse is wrenched too far out of context, no rationalization is too flimsy.

Quote:But theres more evidence for him than Alexander the Great or any famous historical person.

There's not a scrap of evidence for Jesus until the end of the 1st century. Even these are so brief and oblique that they don't even call Jesus by name. Further, all of these pieces of "evidence" are all questionable. The TF by Josephus, the only first century document, is a glaring forgery that even apologists are forced to admit isn't "completely authentic".

Quote:What's the 'official' story according to you.

That there was this man named Jesus, that he started a following that broke off from Judaism and his message of love and salvation got off the ground quickly and spread rapidly despite persecution by Romans and Jews (working together apparently), and eventually captured the hearts of all Romans, yatta yatta yatta. Now, if you'll excuse me I have to puke.

OK, I'm back. Here's what I think really happened:

The Jews were chaffing under foreign rule and wondered where the Hell their promised kingdom of David that supposedly would endure forever went. Some of them decided their kingdom existed in a higher realm. First came the mushroom induced hallucinations of "St. John" who wrote Revelation, a book full of bile and hatred for Israel's enemies and an image of Jesus as the warlord from Heaven who would liberate them. Second came Paul's epistles which spoke mostly of a Heavenly Jesus. Then came Mark who brought Jesus' story down to earth. Perhaps this was originally intended as allegory but the line between fiction and "true story" is a very thin one. Other Gospels came along that added more to the story. And then Muhammad came along six centuries later and said, "Nice religion ya got here. Except you forgot one thing. Me. What's that? Jesus? Nice guy. He was my forerunner. Really, it's all about me. Me, me, me. I'm Allah's chosen prophet. And don't you forget it or I'll cut your head off."

Quote:Because his enemies said so. Also his companions.

I'm sure these testimonies are every bit as reliable as the Gospel accounts of the Christian Jesus.

I'm curious as to when the OP is going to respond to me. The only response I've gotten was about something offtopic. It seems to me that he has skipped over every serious response to him and only answered the people, who by the way, are doing a marvelous job of pepperoni him with insults.

Stop being a coward. Muslims tend to glorify things like honor and bravery, and I've watched a lot of Muslims vastly more capable than you actually defend themselves. All you do is dismiss everything that contradicts you and post links. Stop being a little girl..

(February 1, 2012 at 7:40 pm)Zakir_250 Wrote:

(February 1, 2012 at 7:19 pm)Hitchslap Wrote:

(February 1, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Zakir_250 Wrote:

(February 1, 2012 at 6:45 pm)Hitchslap Wrote: Because I'm a rational person and I don't buy the first fairy tale I'm told as a child?

And I dont need your damn permission to be taken seriously.

I'm about to message Rayaan for some help debunking you guys.

I simply cannot answer 10 people at one time.

And now you know why we dont take you seriously, you're a coward running around with circular arguments who won't listen to reason.

You mean I'm a mature enough to give arguments to why Islam is the true religion of Allah the Almighty and not reply back to insults thrown at me and my religion?

What would you know about maturity, you claimed you won a "debate" because you were the underdog and felt persecuted on an Atheist Forum. You did not give good reasons, period. We have all squashed what you have been saying and you continue with these non sequiturs and circular arguments now saying that maturity determines your reality. Completetly Ridiculous.

Zakir. You wonder why we are so hostile to your so called arguments.

Imagine if you will, if I took myself to a Muslim forum and started pronouncing my beliefs that there is no god and that all the Muslim posters were wrong and just didn't understand my arguments. How do you think they would react? (apart from declaring holy war on me and threatening to kill me and my family of infidels for daring to disagree).

Because that is exactly what you have done here. I'm a scientist and I believe in evidence, if you can produce some that conclusively proves your point I am open minded enough to listen. However there isn't and never has been any such evidence. The 'evidence' that is usually cited for the existence of god is nothing of the sort, it is all assertion, supposition and just plain fantasy.

And for the record, it is not up to US to prove you wrong, it is for you to prove yourself right! That's how science works. You come up with a theory, then test that theory to see if it holds up. Not the other way around. I cannot state some ridiculous claim then put the onus on everyone else to prove me wrong! It just doesn't work like that!

Salaam Zakir. Even though I haven't commented in this thread until now, I've been reading the posts in this thread, and checking out your links and videos. I wanted to see how you debate by yourself. But, apparently, I think that there are some important things that you should try to keep in your mind when discussing religion in this forum. That being said, I hope that you don't feel too much of a grievance about the advice that I'm going to give you right now.

Firstly, there were one or two posts that you made in which you copy-and-pasted a long text from an Islamic website. However, according to the rules, you should avoid doing that and instead provide a link and/or put them in your own words, or you can quote something short, but not too long. Otherwise, it seems as if you are preaching. Secondly, you will have to expect reading insults about Islam because this is an atheist forum and there are many things about religion that atheists and others will find to be repulsive or just plain silly/nonsense/bullshit, but do not get angry or upset by such comments. Take your time to reply and answer everything honestly. Also, recognize that what you think is "evidence" may not be evidence to someone else. In my opinion, for example, hadiths and eyewitness accounts of the moon splitting in two are not considered to be evidence that such a thing actually happened. If you use them to support that belief, then most likely you will be laughed at as if you're in a circus.

Also, you would be wrong if you think or expect that atheists will convert to Islam after reading your arguments. Why? Because they don't believe in God in the first place, and these are arguments which a lot of them have already seen or heard before. I myself have discussed these things in the past in other threads. I'll post the links so that you can read some of them and learn how to debate, at least.

Atheism vs. the Quran
Was Muhammad a Pedophile?
Ten Lies About Islam
An Inconvenient Question(s)
Convert me if you can
Islamic Scholar Doubts Mohammad Existed
The Muslim Jesus was a Failed Prophet

... and more.

I do not really wish to get myself involved in this thread because I already know what type of replies that I'm going to get in response to my arguments (since I had these discussions before as you can see in the links above). But, if I do want to comment on something, or if I find something more interesting to share with others, then I might post it here.

Just try to be as open-minded, rational, and honest as you can. And don't get too frustrated by insults.

On the other hand, if you break any of the rules a few more times, Zakir, then there is a likelihood that you will be banned. So, just keep your heads up for that.

It's unfair the way I'm being treated.

[/quote]



Treat others with respect and they will treat you with respect.

(February 2, 2012 at 4:59 am)Rayaan Wrote: Salaam Zakir. Even though I haven't commented in this thread until now, I've been reading the posts in this thread, and checking out your links and videos. I wanted to see how you debate by yourself. But, apparently, I think that there are some important things that you should try to keep in your mind when discussing religion in this forum. That being said, I hope that you don't feel too much of a grievance about the advice that I'm going to give you right now.

Firstly, there were one or two posts that you made in which you copy-and-pasted a long text from an Islamic website. However, according to the rules, you should avoid doing that and instead provide a link and/or put them in your own words, or you can quote something short, but not too long. Otherwise, it seems as if you are preaching. Secondly, you will have to expect reading insults about Islam because this is an atheist forum and there are many things about religion that atheists and others will find to be repulsive or just plain silly/nonsense/bullshit, but do not get angry or upset by such comments. Take your time to reply and answer everything honestly. Also, recognize that what you think is "evidence" may not be evidence to someone else. In my opinion, for example, hadiths and eyewitness accounts of the moon splitting in two are not considered to be evidence that such a thing actually happened. If you use them to support that belief, then most likely you will be laughed at as if you're in a circus.

Also, you would be wrong if you think or expect that atheists will convert to Islam after reading your arguments. Why? Because they don't believe in God in the first place, and these are arguments which a lot of them have already seen or heard before. I myself have discussed these things in the past in other threads. I'll post the links so that you can read some of them and learn how to debate, at least.

Atheism vs. the Quran
Was Muhammad a Pedophile?
Ten Lies About Islam
An Inconvenient Question(s)
Convert me if you can
Islamic Scholar Doubts Mohammad Existed
The Muslim Jesus was a Failed Prophet

... and more.

I do not really wish to get myself involved in this thread because I already know what type of replies that I'm going to get in response to my arguments (since I had these discussions before as you can see in the links above). But, if I do want to comment on something, or if I find something more interesting to share with others, then I might post it here.

Just try to be as open-minded, rational, and honest as you can. And don't get too frustrated by insults.

On the other hand, if you break any of the rules a few more times, Zakir, then there is a likelihood that you will be banned. So, just keep your heads up for that.

By far the best post in this thread. Thanks for the advice akhi. I was expecting Atheists to more respective but I was wrong.

I will stop posting in this thread as it has 26 pages and it's just getting repetitive.

But thank you so much for your advice. May Allah protect you.

Rayaan...

...the coolest Muslim EVAR!!!

I wish the majority of muslims were more like you.

Of course I wish you were all atheists instead, LOL, but regardless...