Then perhaps you can better appreciate my anti-theism, starting from our new common ground with that answer? If we are to believe the stories, god has commanded atrocities. I am thankful that they are just stories, but I take issue with people who smile and extoll the virtues of those who carried out such orders. This is why my morality, personally, does not stem from god, except inasmuch as the judaic god is an inverse picture of morality. I could learn much about what not to do by way of it's example. I am similarly suspicious that if I had such power at my disposal, I would be no better, no different. I would probably try, I'd give it a good run, but I'd shaft somebody somewhere horribly. The difference here, is that I am only human, I am not omni-anything. Wouldn't you expect more from a deity? In the same way that you would seriously doubt whether or not a god actually commanded you to rape your daughter?

What I'm getting at, to make a long story short, is that it just might be possible that your morality originates from within yourself, and you have extended this self-owned and cultivated morality (an admirable one btw) over your concept of what a god is, or would do, etc.

(March 11, 2012 at 7:06 am)Ace Otana Wrote: When they evade the question or make up excuses, I think it means they really would do it if they thought god told them. That's worrying....

Of course "they really would do it if they thought god told them". They would do anything god told them to. That's why they're fundies. Example: Jim Jones' followers' mass suicide. Example 2: the WBC.

(March 11, 2012 at 1:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: He absolutely exists, and he wants you to rape your daughter.

Well then our inner morality would command us do that, so then our perception of rape would be different then it is now. If God approved of it, then our morality would approve of it, since God is the Ultimate Standard of morality.

As of now, the command of God through the inner messenger of the soul, tells us not to rape our daughter and severely condemns it.

So as of now, God's will seems to be the opposite.

So then you have to change the question.

If your inner morality made rape seem good to do and something you should do + God told you, then would you do it. And then this is a different question all together.

Oh he might just tell you to rape someone else's daughter though. I suppose that makes all the difference in the world?
(your example of our own inner morality commanding exactly the same as we claim god has commanded is precisely what we see occurring in actuality, btw.)

Notice how your mind has retreated from even considering this, instead falling back to the platitude "as of now, blah blah blah"

Dissonance.

(March 11, 2012 at 1:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Oh he might just tell you to rape someone else's daughter though. I suppose that makes all the difference in the world?

The inner messenger of God tells us not to rape, period.

So says your inner messenger, but not the inner messenger of others. God sounds like a stand-in for your own moral authority at this point.

(March 11, 2012 at 1:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So says your inner messenger, but not the inner messenger of others. God sounds like a stand-in for your own moral authority at this point.

If the inner messenger of others didn't tell others not do it, then we wouldn't feel disgust at rapist, and we wouldn't be able to condemn them.

Perhaps we could detect that hidden messenger?

*waits for a bendover backwards response*

The inner messenger has told others to do such things, and yet we still feel disgust and condemn them for it. Complete non starter Mystic.

I remember the story not too long ago about the women who rolled her car into a lake with her kids inside in order to send them on to heaven because she thought God or Jesus had requested her to.

The criticism that having beliefs linked to a book filled with so many allegorical stories but then attending churches where preachers insist every word in literally true is a recipe for disaster. The silent messenger may be hard to distinguish from Lucifer whispering in your ear. So long as you believe there is anyone with the authority to compel you kill your kids, your kids are in danger.