(July 16, 2012 at 10:13 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: So far the answer is, "no."

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(July 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Which god?

It is left unspecified. Since it is God, and not gods, you can assume it is a traditional monotheistic God.

Zeus would tell you to go to hell.

(July 16, 2012 at 10:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(July 16, 2012 at 10:13 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: So far the answer is, "no."

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It is left unspecified. Since it is God, and not gods, you can assume it is a traditional monotheistic God.

Zeus would tell you to go to hell.

Thats another "no." It is sad that when it comes down to it, most atheists just cannot rationally maintain atheism. Or does atheism not have to do with being atheist about a deist or muslim God?

I'll debate with you.

You want to a debate on the illogicality of god, correct? Yahweh being the god?

Quote:Jeffonthenet Wrote: So far the answer is, "no."

Will I debate You?

No I will not.

Why not? Because you have shown yourself to be be a presuppositional apologist. By that I mean a person who argues from a fixed position,unwilling to conceded the possibility of error. For you,the existence of God is a given. For me it is merely an unproven proposition. I think you are intellectually dishonest and generally disingenuous.


PLUS I need debate nothing. I have made no claims so have no burden of proof. I do not believe in gods due the lack of credible evidence. I concede the possibility of error,no matter how unlikely I think that may be.

You believe in God? Fine. Want me to share your belief? No problemo; simply show me your proof. Unable do that? Then please stop wasting my time and fuck off.

You keep looking for a one on one debate here. What is it you're looking to do? What is your intention? Are you actually curious about the other side or are you just looking to prove your god to us?

Are we good to debate the question I proposed then? I can PM an admin right now.
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Sounds fine to me.

(July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm)padraic Wrote: Why not? Because you have shown yourself to be be a presuppositional apologist. By that I mean a person who argues from a fixed position,unwilling to conceded the possibility of error. For you,the existence of God is a given. For me it is merely an unproven proposition. I think you are intellectually dishonest and generally disingenuous.

You know it takes time. People don't change their views suddenly due to an argument here and there. It takes time.

I found errors in Quran, but even when they numbered over 10, I still believed in it. It took me months to finally realize I don't know if Quran is true, let alone, that I know it's false.

It takes time. Let him debate, let him vent his frustration against what he fears (leaving his religion), let him try to prove he is being rational...

It takes years sometimes. You have to give people time.

(July 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm)padraic Wrote: Why not? Because you have shown yourself to be be a presuppositional apologist. By that I mean a person who argues from a fixed position,unwilling to conceded the possibility of error. For you,the existence of God is a given. For me it is merely an unproven proposition. I think you are intellectually dishonest and generally disingenuous.

You know it takes time. People don't change their views suddenly due to an argument here and there. It takes time.

I found errors in Quran, but even when they numbered over 10, I still believed in it. It took me months to finally realize I don't know if Quran is true, let alone, that I know it's false.

It takes time. Let him debate, let him vent his frustration against what he fears (leaving his religion), let him try to prove he is being rational...

It takes years sometimes. You have to give people time.

It took time for me to lose my atheism too. I hope you realize the reverse of what happened to you is quite possible.

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(July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:Jeffonthenet Wrote: So far the answer is, "no."

Will I debate You?

No I will not.

Why not? Because you have shown yourself to be be a presuppositional apologist. By that I mean a person who argues from a fixed position,unwilling to conceded the possibility of error. For you,the existence of God is a given. For me it is merely an unproven proposition. I think you are intellectually dishonest and generally disingenuous.


PLUS I need debate nothing. I have made no claims so have no burden of proof. I do not believe in gods due the lack of credible evidence. I concede the possibility of error,no matter how unlikely I think that may be.

You believe in God? Fine. Want me to share your belief? No problemo; simply show me your proof. Unable do that? Then please stop wasting my time and fuck off.

I've heard presuppositional apologists and I never agree with them.

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(July 16, 2012 at 11:15 pm)FemmeReasonAndLogic Wrote: Are we good to debate the question I proposed then? I can PM an admin right now.

Sounds fine to me.
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Will do. I'm half asleep by now but I'll get it done.

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(July 16, 2012 at 11:38 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote:

(July 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You know it takes time. People don't change their views suddenly due to an argument here and there. It takes time.

I found errors in Quran, but even when they numbered over 10, I still believed in it. It took me months to finally realize I don't know if Quran is true, let alone, that I know it's false.

It takes time. Let him debate, let him vent his frustration against what he fears (leaving his religion), let him try to prove he is being rational...

It takes years sometimes. You have to give people time.

It took time for me to lose my atheism too. I hope you realize the reverse of what happened to you is quite possible.

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(July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm)padraic Wrote: Will I debate You?

No I will not.

Why not? Because you have shown yourself to be be a presuppositional apologist. By that I mean a person who argues from a fixed position,unwilling to conceded the possibility of error. For you,the existence of God is a given. For me it is merely an unproven proposition. I think you are intellectually dishonest and generally disingenuous.


PLUS I need debate nothing. I have made no claims so have no burden of proof. I do not believe in gods due the lack of credible evidence. I concede the possibility of error,no matter how unlikely I think that may be.

You believe in God? Fine. Want me to share your belief? No problemo; simply show me your proof. Unable do that? Then please stop wasting my time and fuck off.

I've heard presuppositional apologists and I never agree with them.

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(July 16, 2012 at 11:15 pm)FemmeReasonAndLogic Wrote: Are we good to debate the question I proposed then? I can PM an admin right now.

Sounds fine to me.

Will do. I'm half asleep by now but I'll get it done.
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Ok, just PMed Shell B. I'll let you know when I hear back.

(July 16, 2012 at 10:55 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Thats another "no." It is sad that when it comes down to it, most atheists just cannot rationally maintain atheism. Or does atheism not have to do with being atheist about a deist or muslim God?

What does it mean exactly to say "most atheists cannot rationally maintain atheism". In my experience, atheism isn't high maintenance at all. I don't find it slithering into irrationality the minute I turn my back.

I have to think you're just trying real hard to make the atheist position seem parallel to your own. But remember, we agnostic atheists see atheism as essentially just a non-response to an unfounded question.

Q: Belief in gods?
A: Depending on what those might be, I'm not aware of any belief I hold regarding anything supernatural.

Quote:I've heard presuppositional apologists and I never agree with them

.

Why on earth not? You are one. (judging by your posts)

Quote:It took time for me to lose my atheism too. I hope you realize the reverse of what happened to you is quite possible.

My journey from devout Catholicism to atheism took almost 25 years. Assuming I want or need to take on the baggage of your bronze age superstitions is patronising and insulting.

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@mystic: I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs. Not only do I consider proselytising arrogant, I don't care enough to bother. This forum is a past time for me. In daily life Jeff and his fellow travelers don't get the time of day from me. Nor do I bother with new age flakes. The guy asked for a debate. I said no,giving my reasons. The End.