(August 5, 2012 at 6:45 am)catfish Wrote: And also not Biblical.

I don't care if it's "in" the Bible, sacrifices are one of the sickest things I could imagine. Sacrifice is a pussie's cop-out for accountability.

But anyways, here's some verses that'll leave a few ppl reeling with anger.

Leviticus 4:1-4
King James Version (KJV)
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the Lord for a sin offering.
4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the Lord.

Notice how the verse above specifies "sin through ignorance", this is an unintentional sin, not a willful sin. Willful sins were to be atoned for through supplication, prayer and repentance.

And now for the verses that directly contradict the above verses:

Jeremiah 7:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

I'm rather taken aback this hasn't already been brought up but according to various verses of the Bible Jesus gave himself up as penance for the sins of humanity and all that.

Just to give you a couple of verses from the King James Version;
Revelation 1:5
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

John 1:29
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Romans 3:25
"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Whats your take on that then? Presumably you believe the crucifiction took place. In your opinion was it simply another sadistic execution or the relinquishing of a human beings life on the part of God to wash away the sins of mankind?
If the latter then what distinguishes that from the very definition of a human sacrifice?
This question is equally directed at Drich and Godschild as well as yourself.

(August 7, 2012 at 5:37 am)catfish Wrote:

(August 7, 2012 at 4:41 am)Godschild Wrote:

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No, He did not, He said that when the Israelites left Egypt He had not asked them to make a sacrifice. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, then God provided a ram for sacrifice, this happened many, many years before the Israelites left Egypt.
God was trying to get across to them if they would obey His commandments, ie laws, there would be no need for sacrifice.

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The Abraham story was told to me when I very young. I knew at that moment that the Bible was man-made. There is no way in Hades that I would even contemplate sacrificing another human and if you think God would ever ask this of a person you are a sick individual.

You can use whatever hocus-pocus explaination you want to condone such actions, but I want you to contemplate this:

Isaiah 5:20-21
King James Version (KJV)

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Human sacrifice is condemned, PERIOD!

Now I ask you again, do you believe the Bible is 100% the word of God?

Yes, I believe that the Bible is 100% God's word. You need to supply some verses that sacrificing is not part of god's plan. The ones you're arguing with are not proof, you should know that God does not rule by what you believe, He rules by who He is.

(August 7, 2012 at 11:03 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Whats your take on that then? Presumably you believe the crucifiction took place. In your opinion was it simply another sadistic execution or the relinquishing of a human beings life on the part of God to wash away the sins of mankind?
If the latter then what distinguishes that from the very definition of a human sacrifice?
This question is equally directed at Drich and Godschild as well as yourself.

You've never answered my question as to whether "cherrypicking" is allowed or not.
If you are under the impression that the Bible is 100% infallible, then I would be wasting my time responding to you.

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(August 7, 2012 at 11:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes, I believe that the Bible is 100% God's word. You need to supply some verses that sacrificing is not part of god's plan. The ones you're arguing with are not proof, you should know that God does not rule by what you believe, He rules by who He is.

So then, what do you think of this?

Jeremiah 8:8-9
New International Version (NIV)

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
9 The wise will be put to shame;
they will be dismayed and trapped.
Since they have rejected the word of the LORD,
what kind of wisdom do they have?

Holy fuck Catfish. Did you seriously ask an atheist (Raph) if he thought the bible was 100% true? Fucking dumb; dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb dumb. I know you can't hear it, but there was actually a melody that went with all the 'dumbs' I wrote out. In your honor, of course.

Follow along here cato, RD is quoting scripture, so I need to know from what position he is arguing. Jeez, are you blind to the fact that he "chastised" me for cherrypicking?

(August 8, 2012 at 1:49 am)catfish Wrote: Follow along here cato, RD is quoting scripture, so I need to know from what position he is arguing. Jeez, are you blind to the fact that he "chastised" me for cherrypicking?

Ah yes, chastising from a person that never takes a position. Vigorously poke me with another feather. Shall I acknowledge your annoying presence or swat you away as a cow tail treats flies? While I decide, you have an opportunity to improve your vapid argument.

(August 7, 2012 at 11:47 pm)catfish Wrote:

(August 7, 2012 at 11:03 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Whats your take on that then? Presumably you believe the crucifiction took place. In your opinion was it simply another sadistic execution or the relinquishing of a human beings life on the part of God to wash away the sins of mankind?
If the latter then what distinguishes that from the very definition of a human sacrifice?
This question is equally directed at Drich and Godschild as well as yourself.

You've never answered my question as to whether "cherrypicking" is allowed or not.
If you are under the impression that the Bible is 100% infallible, then I would be wasting my time responding to you.

Well thats a lie, I did answer that but allow me to go to the trouble of answering again ignoring the fact I'm an atheist and am fairly certain all religion is bullshit including Christianity in its entirety;
No, I do not think you have the knowledge to separate which parts of the Bible are Gods will and which are not, which is essentially what you are attempting by cherrypicking. Cherrypicking is rarely acceptable, it certainly isn't when deciding the will of an all-powerful and all-knowing being based on the unproven writings of peasants born in a ignorant and barbaric time. However, you insist on cherrypicking through the Bible in this particular thread so I will humour you if only for the sake of debate.
That being said I agree sacrifices are disgusting and unacceptable.

Now thats out of the way; answer the question so we can clarify your position, as someone who is religious, on the crucifixion.
"In your opinion was it simply another sadistic execution or the relinquishing of a human beings life on the part of God to wash away the sins of mankind?"
This question assumes you believe it took place, do let me know if I am mistaken in assuming this.

(August 8, 2012 at 11:53 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: ...That being said I agree sacrifices are disgusting and unacceptable.

Now thats out of the way; answer the question so we can clarify your position, as someone who is religious, on the crucifixion.
"In your opinion was it simply another sadistic execution or the relinquishing of a human beings life on the part of God to wash away the sins of mankind?"
This question assumes you believe it took place, do let me know if I am mistaken in assuming this.

Dude, that's a rather moronic question.

I'll just have to tell you to read your own words, figure out who you agree with, then read the thread title a couple hundred times...

It would seem that Cat here sees it as either -a sadistic execution- or -didn't happen-. My money is on the latter (personally), but if IIRC Cat's made comments that would probably suggest the former.

Of course, Cat, you could always just answer direct questions with direct answers. You know, because you're definitely not troll or anything.