(October 11, 2012 at 1:59 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Why is God's glory the greatest good? Why should one want to glorify God?

Everyone worships something. When I say worship I'm talking about more than bowing down to something or singing songs to it. What I mean by "everyone worships something" is this: there is something in every humans life that he ascribes the highest value to.

For some people it's their job, that's what they ascribe the highest value to. They dedicate their life to that job, they sacrifice time for their job, they sacrifice relationships, they sacrifice sleep…all of these things are sacrificed to their god…their job. They life revolves around making much of their job.

For some people it's their friends. Their ego, their self-image, the way the perceive life stands or falls based on what they're friends think of them.

For some people it's their animals. They pamper they're animals and buy them clothes and fancy things and take them places to make much of them.

For some people it's their kids. They make their entire world revolve around their children, they sacrifice everything for them and let them run the household.

The problem with this is that all of these things will let you down.

Your favorite team will lose, your girlfriend/wife will hurt your feelings, your job won't last, your friends will eventually let you down or leave you….none of these will fulfill you.

Whoa! Are you saying that if your spouse hurts your feelings once that means they 'don't fulfill you' and you should just ditch them (or at least ascirbe them far less value)? That's really harsh...

Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:First I worshiped video games. I was always on top of the latest one, then you play it until it doesn't fulfill you anymore..then you look for something else. More of the same thing never fulfills.

Then I worshiped alcohol. When I was happy, I drank, when I was sad, I drank. what I ran to in my times of trouble was the bottle.

Next I worshiped drugs. Alcohol stopped fulfilling me, but drugs were something new and fun. They promised a good time and joy and peace.

Typical conversion story: I did drugs, was a drunk, and was addicted to video games; therefore all material things are evil because in my personal experience I let them take precedence over family. (Not that family matters; one of them will make a mistake someday! Just you wait, they'll let you down and make you regret ever loving them!)

Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:One day I felt a very strong impression. "Jeff, you've tried everything that you thought would make you happy but you've never tried me."

I went out and bought a Bible for a few dollars, one that didn't look like a Bible because I was ashamed to be seen reading one. I read Genesis, then Romans….by the end of Romans I gave my life to Christ.

I have worshiped many things in my life. I have sacrificed for many false gods….sex, friends, pets, alcohol, drugs, video games, porn…..none of it fulfills. They would all leave me feeling empty when I was alone.

But you never found evidence for god other than the bible?

[Reasonable_Jeff]
There is only one thing that you can worship that will never let you down, that will always fulfill, that even though heaven and earth pass away…He will still be there. [/quote]

I will spare you the indignity of a rofl smiley, but yes, an imaginary friend is always there for you.

Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:Jesus Christ is the what I ascribe highest value to in my life. I sacrifice my time so that I can read the Bible. I sacrifice my money so that I can give to my church and to help the poor (what Jesus commands me to do). I sacrifice my social status to proclaim his name. I sacrifice everything I can get my hands on to ascribe higher value to my LORD Jesus Christ so that when someone looks at my life they can see that I value something different.

Nothing has ever fulfilled me the way a relationship with Jesus Christ has....to bring glory to Him is my greatest desire simply because it feels good. Christian Hedonism.

I would die today for my LORD Jesus Christ if it came to it. He is the resurrection and the eternal life.

I'm a bit worried now. You never said you found any evidence to suggest what the bible says is true, but you are willing to die for it? (P.S. You don't need the bible to give money to the poor)

Quote:Nothing has ever fulfilled me the way a relationship with Jesus Christ has.

What a sorry excuse for a life you have.

Why don't you just kill yourself and go suck jesus' cock for eternity?

@ Darkstar, you are childish, you can not give intelligent answers to any replies, I really do not know why you try, being juvenile is a sad thing for a man, that's if you are a man. The truth of scripture has never been disproved, all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account, they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

Quote:The truth of scripture has never been disproved

That's because it is too weak a theory to be falsifiable.

(October 11, 2012 at 12:49 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Um, Gospel of Philip isn't canonical.

Thanks. This response is aimed at our Christian members....

By who's definition? Which Canon are we expected to adhere to - the Canon of Trent? King James 1611 Authorized Version in English?

The gospel of Philip is a gnostic gospel which is contemporary of what most modern Christians regard as the new testament, and certainly pre-dates the Canon of Trent. It is the gospel of either Philip the Evangelist or Philip the Apostle (historians differ, I think the Apostle is the conventional view).

Are you saying that a bunch of Roman Catholics in the late 4th Century are divinely qualified to determine which gospels are the word of God and which are not.

The reason the Gospel of Philip never made it into Protestant bibles (Lutheran, King James...) is more about the success of the Roman Catholics in 'owning' the bible and suppressing, even extirpating the "heretical" scripture of the Early Christians than about divine authority? When the Southern Baptists split from what became the Northern Baptists in 1845 (over slavery let's not forget), how many Southern Baptist preachers had even heard of the Gospel of Philip? - None. It'd been effectively hidden and suppressed for over a thousand years and was only rediscovered in 1945.

(October 11, 2012 at 1:59 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Why is God's glory the greatest good? Why should one want to glorify God?

Everyone worships something. When I say worship I'm talking about more than bowing down to something or singing songs to it. What I mean by "everyone worships something" is this: there is something in every humans life that he ascribes the highest value to.

For some people it's their job, that's what they ascribe the highest value to. They dedicate their life to that job, they sacrifice time for their job, they sacrifice relationships, they sacrifice sleep…all of these things are sacrificed to their god…their job. They life revolves around making much of their job.

For some people it's their friends. Their ego, their self-image, the way the perceive life stands or falls based on what they're friends think of them.

For some people it's their animals. They pamper they're animals and buy them clothes and fancy things and take them places to make much of them.

For some people it's their kids. They make their entire world revolve around their children, they sacrifice everything for them and let them run the household.

The problem with this is that all of these things will let you down.

Your favorite team will lose, your girlfriend/wife will hurt your feelings, your job won't last, your friends will eventually let you down or leave you….none of these will fulfill you.

First I worshiped video games. I was always on top of the latest one, then you play it until it doesn't fulfill you anymore..then you look for something else. More of the same thing never fulfills.

Then I worshiped alcohol. When I was happy, I drank, when I was sad, I drank. what I ran to in my times of trouble was the bottle.

Next I worshiped drugs. Alcohol stopped fulfilling me, but drugs were something new and fun. They promised a good time and joy and peace.

One day I felt a very strong impression. "Jeff, you've tried everything that you thought would make you happy but you've never tried me."

I went out and bought a Bible for a few dollars, one that didn't look like a Bible because I was ashamed to be seen reading one. I read Genesis, then Romans….by the end of Romans I gave my life to Christ.

I have worshiped many things in my life. I have sacrificed for many false gods….sex, friends, pets, alcohol, drugs, video games, porn…..none of it fulfills. They would all leave me feeling empty when I was alone.

There is only one thing that you can worship that will never let you down, that will always fulfill, that even though heaven and earth pass away…He will still be there. 

Jesus Christ is the what I ascribe highest value to in my life. I sacrifice my time so that I can read the Bible. I sacrifice my money so that I can give to my church and to help the poor (what Jesus commands me to do). I sacrifice my social status to proclaim his name. I sacrifice everything I can get my hands on to ascribe higher value to my LORD Jesus Christ so that when someone looks at my life they can see that I value something different.

Nothing has ever fulfilled me the way a relationship with Jesus Christ has....to bring glory to Him is my greatest desire simply because it feels good. Christian Hedonism.

I would die today for my LORD Jesus Christ if it came to it. He is the resurrection and the eternal life.

You know what, Jeff, I really get what you are saying here.

Not only do I understand you, I empathize with you. There have been things in my life that have disappointed me. My parents, my friends.

Not unlike you, the place I found very fulfilling and satisfying was my fantasy world. A place where I'd go with my imaginary friends. A place where all my faults and shortcomings disappeared. Where I didn't want or need anything. Where I was never disappointed or unfulfilled.

In fact, I used to spend hours escaping from the harsh reality and daydreaming about this world.

Then something amazing happened. I turned 10. And after that, stuff like that sort of lost its appeal.

(October 11, 2012 at 12:38 am)cato123 Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:10 am)Godschild Wrote: Please give scriptural evidence for your assertions, books, chapters, and verses would be appreciated. The reason I ask is because I do not believe you're correct in your assertions. To be able to discuss this, background to your assertion is needed.

Thanks
Gc

Your superiour scriptural knowledge should lead us all to the fact that your god doesn't give a fuck about a child until 'he' is at least one month old.

Care to swap book, chapter and verse regarding this one month prohibition of your god's love (babies and all)? Or will you just tell me to 'study' more after I again shove your own book up your sanctimonious ass?

Supply your book, chapter and verse.

(October 11, 2012 at 3:31 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:38 am)cato123 Wrote: Your superiour scriptural knowledge should lead us all to the fact that your god doesn't give a fuck about a child until 'he' is at least one month old.

Care to swap book, chapter and verse regarding this one month prohibition of your god's love (babies and all)? Or will you just tell me to 'study' more after I again shove your own book up your sanctimonious ass?

Supply your book, chapter and verse.

Minimalist already did. 2 Samuel 12.

BTW, "chapter and verse" depends on which version of the bible you use. Chapter and verse references were added after the original writing.

---

(October 11, 2012 at 1:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(October 11, 2012 at 12:49 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Um, Gospel of Philip isn't canonical.

Probably its biggest plus....especially when you compare it to the canonical shit.

Not so sure. Gnosticism is a bit more abstract and intellectual than mainstream Christianity I think, just as crazy if not more whacko than the boring post-council-of-Trent stuff. Like "You will in your life experience many genesis/creations". So they are even further from reasoning also, it kinda has the appeal that mystical eastern traditions do for hippy westerners - I wouldn't be surprised if there are soon new-age Christian conmen preachers capitalising on it, especially after Dan Brown got in on the conspiracy theory side of it.

(October 11, 2012 at 1:47 pm)Godschild Wrote: Seems your fellow nonbelievers know more than you do, maybe you should confer with them from time to time.

They possibly do, but what makes you say that with regards to the gospel of Philip? What was the founders of the SBC view on the gospel of Philip?

Oh, this all good fun.

Back to the original topic, Jesus existed before Adam. John 1:1

Therefore, if God is eternal and all-knowing, he would KNOW Adam would create the original sin. Therefore, Jesus and the "master plan" would already be in motion before the world was created.

Babies are selfish. Therefore, they would be considered "sinners". They are born and conceived in sin. Romans 5:12-19

In order to quell their fears about all the children going to hell, Christians have created an "age of accountability" which they define as when a child is old enough to make a clear moral choice. That isn't biblical, despite Christians claiming the Bible is infallible.

In short, everyone is going to hell except Christians, including babies.

Of course, that'd only work if you believe in the Christian bi-polar God in the sky.

If by chance it's all true, I'll take my chances in hell.

(October 11, 2012 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote: ....The truth of scripture has never been disproved, all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account, they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

And that's why we should dismiss them. IF God existed and IF the bible were the word of God, we would expect the bible to be completely unlike the other writings and beliefs during time it was written! We should expect to find scientific truths in it that couldn't have been known back then, and truly unambiguous and verifiably old prophecies that have come true. We would expect absolutely NO contradictions at all in the bible. Eye witness accounts wouldn't have any contradictions between them!

The Bible, if really the word of God, would provide perfect answers to questions such as Why does God exist? Why did God create a world in which there's evil? How does one know what is real? What is the nature of knowledge? etc...

The Bible should have been a truly monumental work of science, history, and philosophy.