To be fair the Greek goverment caused much of it`s shit by beeing uterly corrupt, not collecting almoust any taxmoney and giving really massive hand outs.

They also cooked their books to hide their real dept from the european central bank.

But guess who helped them cook their books? Goldman Sachs.


Italy under Berlosconi was just taxcut after taxcut after taxcut.

Spain made investments nto useless inferstructure projects, but the biggest amount of spanish debt was aquired through a housing bubble created by the wonderfull world of the free financial market.

I can't believe you guys are still acting like I support the current US healthcare system. I want the healthcare system to be deregulated so that the prices of healthcare are lowered. I support medical savings accounts. And I also think the FDA should be replaced with a more agile alternative. One that doesn't raise healthcare costs and delay drugs that could save lives for longer than is needed.

(January 8, 2013 at 9:56 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Do you honestly think that we built up public dept for 142 years, through 2 World wars and every other events of the 20th century?????????????????????????????????

Your social healthcare system is coming apart at the seams. There have been problems along the way, but it's taken people until now to realize how grave they really are, mainly because they are getting worse.

Quote:And guess what caused the the financial fallout of 2009?

Never said your healthcare system did. I said your healthcare system was 11 billion dollars short in 2009.

(January 8, 2013 at 3:19 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(January 8, 2013 at 3:14 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: We as liberals care about America. That's why a little more empathy and a little less chest pounding would serve us well. This bravado may feel good to you but it doesn't help your country.

This. I'm sorry A Theist, but it's guys like DP that gives the rest of world hope in a truly great USA....

LOL!

(January 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm)Surtr Wrote: Your social healthcare system is coming apart at the seams. There have been problems along the way, but it's taken people until now to realize how grave they really are, mainly because they are getting worse.

And in the future..............

there will be robots.


I love it when people with political convictions leave facts on the sideroads in favor of their convictions and become prophets of impending doom or some ideological promissed land or any other baseless thing.

Nope, doesn`t work that way with Germans, at least not anymore.

For quite some time we require facts to be convinced.

Quote:Never said your healthcare system did. I said your healthcare system was 11 billion dollars short in 2009.

WOW!!! You have dug up a number!!! Congratualations.

If you would have dug deeper then you would have noticed that the shortcomings in the social healthcare sector of my country are due to the reunification of 1990.
The resulting debt aquired by the GDR and the healthcare and pention issues of the GDR citizens were payed with debt.

The prize of unification will be 40 year of high debt.

A prize we then were ready to take.

And again, we have our financial household under very good control right noww.

(January 8, 2013 at 10:21 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: For quite some time we require facts to be convinced.

I'm sorry that you were unable to read the facts I've provided you with.

Quote:And again, we have our financial household under very good control right noww.

Really?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...mists.html

Quote: The German finance ministry said factory orders were down 3.3pc in September from the month before shocking economists who had forecast a 0.4pc drop, according to Bloomberg poll.

Taken with figures showing German business confidence has fallen to the lowest in two-and-a-half years, the data was described as “a catastrophe and very bad news” by Thomas Harjes, European economist at Barclays in Frankfurt. “We have a huge problem in the rest of the euro area that now seems to be reaching Germany and its labour market,” he said. “For the coming quarters, the economic outlook is quite gloomy.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...ssion.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...cliff.html




Oh, and on Greece: When you help them recover, you lose money and resources doing it. When they finally do recover (possibly another 5-10 years) it just creates more competition for Germany.

(January 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm)A Theist Wrote: ...the reason America hasn't been invaded since 1812 is because we kept ourselves economically and militarily strong....what you liberals are demanding, that America reduces its military strength as a gesture of peace and to set an example for the rest of the world to see and follow, is naive and dangerous...

The irony is our military spending and war of aggression in Iraq is precisely what is destroying us as a world power. Our military spending is simply unsustainable. We are not only #1 in military spending but we spend more than double the combined spending of the next four nations combined.

And the GOP wants senior citizens and the poor to pay for balancing the budget so we may continue running in the Arms Race against a rival superpower that doesn't exist anymore.

If we fall as a power, it won't be from invasion but because we collapsed on the Arms Race track from having continued to compulsively run around and around the track, long after the race was over, until finally dropping from dehydration.

"...must... keep... running... "
"America! You can stop running now! You won!"
"...got... to keep... ahead..."
"Really, America, no one else is on the track!"
"...*pant*... almost there..."

(January 8, 2013 at 10:41 pm)Surtr Wrote: I'm sorry that you were unable to read the facts I've provided you with.

This is the first post in which you post a "source". But this source doesn`t back up any of your previous assetions.

Quote:Really?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...mists.html

Quote: The German finance ministry said factory orders were down 3.3pc in September from the month before shocking economists who had forecast a 0.4pc drop, according to Bloomberg poll.

Taken with figures showing German business confidence has fallen to the lowest in two-and-a-half years, the data was described as “a catastrophe and very bad news” by Thomas Harjes, European economist at Barclays in Frankfurt. “We have a huge problem in the rest of the euro area that now seems to be reaching Germany and its labour market,” he said. “For the coming quarters, the economic outlook is quite gloomy.”

Wow, guess what happened here in Europe since 2008????

a crisis.

Do you really thing this would go by us without leaving harm.
Fact is, we are one of the last European nations to reach this point, and we havent even reached it jet - these are predictions by a rating agency and bank.

Other nations dumped earlier since they hadnt had a fixed household.

And if anything this article shows how deep the impact of the financial crisis was, a crisis caused by irresponsible deregulation policies and not by a fully functioning social healthcare system which has been in place for 142 years!!!!!!!! without any negative sideeffects!!!!!!!!

Quote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...ssion.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...cliff.html




Oh, and on Greece: When you help them recover, you lose money and resources doing it. When they finally do recover (possibly another 5-10 years) it just creates more competition for Germany.

And????

More competition is healthy for Europe as a whole. We belive in a united europe and a united european economy and not in a economy seperated by pathetic nationalistic squabbles.

Or at least I do.


So where are these magical "facts" which show how bad a social healthcaresystem is financialy.

And even if it is, what makes the liberterian one so much better?

Quote:I want the healthcare system to be deregulated

Yea because all the "deregulation" that started with Regan has driven up wages and and improved our education system and kept us competitive worldwide.

Oh wait, seems the opposite has happened.

I think you confuse "deregulation" with anti monopoly. We have had "deregulation" but all it has gotten us is more monopolies by big money that require more regulation to stand up to greed.

The common tactic with people like you is to "compete across state lines" failing to see that that guise was used by the big auction industry between Sotheby's and Cristy's. Convince the public there is competition and agree to charge the same prices and not compete.

I could imagine what our military and police would look like if it was privatized with that attitude.

The reason America hasn't been invaded in 200 years probably has more to do with those big ass oceans which surround us on both sides than anything else.

Quote:Wow, guess what happened here in Europe since 2008????

a crisis.

Do you really thing this would go by us without leaving harm.
Fact is, we are one of the last European nations to reach this point, and we havent even reached it jet - these are predictions by a rating agency and bank.

Then don't claim you have your financial system under control. These continued troubles show that Germany is still unable to recover from it's fall. People call Germany a "fiscal saint", yet they went and violated the Stability and Growth Pact. More than once, and by much more than the other European countries did. Those violations were so insignificant that they should hardly be considered. You know what's happened in Germany recently? The top ten percent (the same with private health insurance) have had their wealth doubled. They are controlling more and more of your countries' assets every year. And the middle class in your country are getting poorer.


Another note of interest: Your country pours millions and billions into bailouts and stimulus, yet that is the same thing that America did. Guess what happened? It just wasted money. In Germany's case, it massively reduced public assets. Poverty is increasing. And it has been since BEFORE the crisis. Pensions are decreasing.

http://wsws.org/en/articles/2012/09/germ-s22.html

Quote:142 years!!!!!!!! without any negative sideeffects!!!!!!!!

*Sigh* You're not listening to me. Care for some sources?
http://www.aicgs.org/issue/issues-in-the...e-systems/
http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100510-27107.html
http://www.dw.de/german-health-care-refo...-2117345-1

Quote: We belive in a united europe and a united european economy and not in a economy seperated by pathetic nationalistic squabbles.

Ironic how well Norway is doing outside of the EU.

---

(January 8, 2013 at 11:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Yea because all the "deregulation" that started with Regan has driven up wages and and improved our education system and kept us competitive worldwide.

Oh wait, seems the opposite has happened.

Let me clarify: I want policies that decrease availability of medical services and increase costs removed.

Quote:I could imagine what our military and police would look like if it was privatized with that attitude.

Do I want the military to be deregulated? No.