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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 10:07 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2013 at 10:12 am by Little Rik.)
(November 17, 2013 at 9:48 am)Kitanetos Wrote: The problem is that so-called philosophers confuse wisdom with knowledge.
You are welcome to explain the difference between the two according to your WISDOM or KNOWLEDGE. 
(November 17, 2013 at 10:04 am)Rationalman Wrote: Oh i'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you did that, can you link me to it?
My fees for going back in the previous pages and tell you where my point is are very expensive.
Are you prepared to pay? 
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 10:16 am
Wisdom tends to come with age and from one's personal life experience. What may be wisdom for one may not be wisdom that universally applies to everyone.
Knowledge comes from studying associated with collective experimentation. What can be categorized as knowledge will always be recognized as a universal truth.
Religion claims to have knowledge, but what it really has is false wisdom.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 10:37 am
I would say that wisdom is your ability to apply knowledge
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 10:52 am
(November 17, 2013 at 10:07 am)enrico Wrote: (November 17, 2013 at 10:04 am)Rationalman Wrote: Oh i'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you did that, can you link me to it?
My fees for going back in the previous pages and tell you where my point is are very expensive.
Are you prepared to pay?
Oh ok, you can't do it then? Thought so
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 11:18 am
enrico Wrote:Are you prepared to pay?
Are you prepared to us what's in the box? :p
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 11:40 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2013 at 11:49 am by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(November 17, 2013 at 10:00 am)enrico Wrote: (November 17, 2013 at 9:26 am)Rationalman Wrote: And yet again enrico demonstrates just how weak his position is. When you can't justify your own position, go on the offensive and attack and insult everyone else's.
Theist debating tactics 101
If you follow the last posts from castronaut you would have noticed that he keep on asking the same question time after time again despite i already explained in a nice manner my point.
He may not like my answer but he got to stick with it.
If he does not like too bad for him but to come back again and again with the same question make him look like a child that is not happy because mummy did not buy lollies for him.
He may cry he may bang the head on the wall but if he keep on coming back and whine to me then i have no choice but to shake him off. 
Kid, if instead of replying to people when they call you on your shit you are going to try and insult people, you need to bring something better to the table than the above. Srsly. It's like you're a 2 year old who is just starting to speak. Only you fail miserably.
Tell us what's in the box. Everytime you refuse to justify your claims you make yourself look like more of a liar, which of course, you are.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 12:13 pm
(November 17, 2013 at 8:47 am)enrico Wrote: (November 15, 2013 at 3:45 pm)Tonus Wrote: By the same token, I am not compelled to believe your made-up claims. If you aren't making things up, by all means present your case. If you are claiming that you've presented your case, I would have to say that it's not a compelling one.
Whatever case i would present you wouldn't believe anyway.
You are still stuck in the idea that life is finite and in this way you lock yourself inside the corral of dogma.
So this evidence you have, and the case that you make with it, is enough to completely convince you, but not enough to convince anyone else here?
It sure sounds like you are admitting to being a gullible buffoon.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 17, 2013 at 3:27 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2013 at 3:28 pm by Whateverist.)
(November 17, 2013 at 9:45 am)enrico Wrote: Quote:I do believe in consciousness however because I have direct experience of that. My suspicion is that our brains are elastic enough to support not only the program we call our conscious mind but also others, including whatever it is people believe to be their god.
So what is your idea about consciousness?
Can consciousness be separated from the body-mind or die when the body-mind die? 
I have no reason to think consciousness does not require a functional brain. I know you speculate that they are independent of one another but I've heard no reason to think that myself.
(November 17, 2013 at 9:45 am)enrico Wrote: Quote:We could discuss philosophy. I have some ideas. My own philosophic bent is toward plain speech. If a thing can be said at all it should be possible to say it simply. Anything which cannot be said plainly is suspect. The chief purpose of philosophy is to sketch out what is and isn't known in areas which are not yet fully understood.
Easy said then done mate.
You try to explain something that is explained at the uni to a child and the child still would not understand.
But if you explain the same truth to the same child that in the meantime is grown up 10 or 20 years then he will understand 100%.
In other words you got to grow up your consciousness before you can grasp the idea.
Without a doubt. A young child's brain is not ready to handle certain concepts which it will be fully capable of handling a little later.
(November 17, 2013 at 9:45 am)enrico Wrote: Quote:There is also a history of philosophy. Unfortunately, many seem to think philosophy is a kind of bazaar where one can look for positions and opinions one might like to hold. That may be what many people do with it but that isn't philosophy.
If you stick to the real meaning of philosophy which is love for wisdom the you can not go wrong.
Where do you find wisdom?
In this physical dimension in which everything change all the time or in the inner consciousness where nothing change?
That doesn't seem like a meaningful distinction to me. Wisdom, meaning, knowledge and the like apply to mental processes. But those mental processes take place within a brain which finds its bearings through perception and cognition concerning the physical world. It isn't an either/or situation.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 18, 2013 at 10:33 am
(November 17, 2013 at 3:27 pm)whateverist Wrote: I have no reason to think consciousness does not require a functional brain. I know you speculate that they are independent of one another but I've heard no reason to think that myself.
They will be totally independent when the body die not when you are alive unless you reach some degree of consciousness in that case you can separate the two and you can even see inside the now super famous box that everybody is talking about.:
In order to reach some or high degree of consciousness you got to work hard within. The road to the destination is long and it takes time to reach.
Quote:Without a doubt. A young child's brain is not ready to handle certain concepts which it will be fully capable of handling a little later.
Quote:Wisdom, meaning, knowledge and the like apply to mental processes. But those mental processes take place within a brain It isn't an either/or situation.
Knowledge can come either from outside or from within but wisdom is something more subtle and usually come from within.
I said usually because in some case may come from outside as well by trying to imitate people with wisdom.
Real wisdom does not have to be dependent on a brain.......... which finds its bearings through perception and cognition concerning the physical world..............as it reflect pure consciousness which again does not necessary depend on the brain functions. 
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
November 18, 2013 at 10:38 am
(November 18, 2013 at 10:33 am)enrico Wrote: Knowledge can come either from outside or from within but wisdom is something more subtle and usually come from within.
I said usually because in some case may come from outside as well by trying to imitate people with wisdom.
Real wisdom does not have to be dependent on a brain.......... which finds its bearings through perception and cognition concerning the physical world..............as it reflect pure consciousness which again does not necessary depend on the brain functions.
Enrico, please just provide a link or something! We wan't evidence. You aren't providing any. I'm tired of reading your posts because all they contain is flat, bare assertions.
How do you know that consciousness does not depend on the brain?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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