(November 26, 2013 at 9:08 pm)FiniteImmortal Wrote:

(November 26, 2013 at 8:56 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Bullshit. Pain is merely a product of neurochemistry. It also provides a definite evolutionary advantage.

Are you insane?

Technically? It's a bit of a grey area. It doesn't stop me being right.

Quote:If pain is ONLY an product of neurochemistry, how can you people make a MORAL pronouncement that it should be stifled???? Tell that to the mothers at Sandy Hook. That is textbook unliveable-philosophy.

What the fuck are you talking about? How does the neurochemical origin of pain have anything to do with morality?? What has any of this do with a school shooting? If you're going to persist in constructing these straw man arguments, you could at least have the decency to tell us what they are.

(November 26, 2013 at 11:11 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: If you're going to persist in constructing these straw man arguments, you could at least have the decency to tell us what they are.

Of course I felt peace at times when I was a Christian, sometimes thinking it was the grace of God. I also thought I felt and saw the witness of the Holy Spirit. I also believe people of other religions all throughout history have had these experiences with their gods. The feeling of the Divine is functionally and argumentatively impotent.

(November 26, 2013 at 11:47 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Of course I felt peace at times when I was a Christian, sometimes thinking it was the grace of God. I also thought I felt and saw the witness of the Holy Spirit. I also believe people of other religions all throughout history have had these experiences with their gods. The feeling of the Divine is functionally and argumentatively impotent.

I have never been a Xtian or believed in any kind of cosmic whatnot. This "inner peace" -- have i experienced it? I suppose -- is it like just being OK and content with the moment and things as they are? Is it like listening to Sketches of Spain by candle light after a bong hit? Is it like feeling that you can communicate with a pebble while tripping balls?

Or have I got it all wrong?

It's hard to describe such experiences with words... so here I go trying to describe them with words. The best I can drudge up is a sort of tingly oneness with the All. Not sure that helps. These are purely first-person experiences, I'm not sure they can really be encapsulated in words so well, You feel them, you don't really convey them. To try and convey them sort of does those experiences a disservice. It's kind of like trying to explain what love is: you'll just sound kind of stupid an/or woo-woo trying to communicate the feeling of it.

(November 24, 2013 at 4:09 am)Cinjin Wrote: And Yet ...
There I sat with a former black pentecostal preacher who left his faith behind because quote, "it simply isn't real."
To me this has always been the final nail in the casket of christianity. When even the devout shepherd of the flock can turn his back on this supposed "peace that passeth all understanding" you can be sure that it was always just another big fat lie from the bible.


So much for the No True Christian argument.

An man, you found it!

I can hardly believe it, but you have finally proven the negative - No God Exists - and this despite not even bearing the burden of proof!



And all it took was one man doing what no other man or woman has ever done before - defeat death and rise from the dead . . .

Or, wait, he changed his mind? Oh . . . I see. Well, not exactly a "holy shit" moment, is it? Pun intended.

(November 27, 2013 at 6:22 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: It's hard to describe such experiences with words... so here I go trying to describe them with words. The best I can drudge up is a sort of tingly oneness with the All. Not sure that helps. These are purely first-person experiences, I'm not sure they can really be encapsulated in words so well, You feel them, you don't really convey them. To try and convey them sort of does those experiences a disservice. It's kind of like trying to explain what love is: you'll just sound kind of stupid an/or woo-woo trying to communicate the feeling of it.

Love, perhaps, provides the common touchstone, and why god/God is analogized to it. I would suggest it is the feeling of love, after the passion has faded and gone. I no longer seek peace. Time enough for that later on. The religious practices I engage in, to my mind, serve both as throttle and brake, in one; that is why I have chosen them as my own.

(November 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm)apophenia Wrote:

(November 27, 2013 at 6:22 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: It's hard to describe such experiences with words... so here I go trying to describe them with words. The best I can drudge up is a sort of tingly oneness with the All. Not sure that helps. These are purely first-person experiences, I'm not sure they can really be encapsulated in words so well, You feel them, you don't really convey them. To try and convey them sort of does those experiences a disservice. It's kind of like trying to explain what love is: you'll just sound kind of stupid an/or woo-woo trying to communicate the feeling of it.

Love, perhaps, provides the common touchstone, and why god/God is analogized to it. I would suggest it is the feeling of love, after the passion has faded and gone. I no longer seek peace. Time enough for that later on. The religious practices I engage in, to my mind, serve both as throttle and brake, in one; that is why I have chosen them as my own.

OK -- so every once in a while on a dark quiet night when the Mrs. is off doing something else, and I am home alone. I like to light the room with candles, I put on some Miles Davis or Rachmaninoff, or something really awesome like that, take a bong hit or two, and just relax. I get that strange feeling -- that something -- that je ne seis qua.

Is that what this god-thing is like?

(November 27, 2013 at 8:30 pm)Godlesspanther Wrote:

(November 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm)apophenia Wrote: Love, perhaps, provides the common touchstone, and why god/God is analogized to it. I would suggest it is the feeling of love, after the passion has faded and gone. I no longer seek peace. Time enough for that later on. The religious practices I engage in, to my mind, serve both as throttle and brake, in one; that is why I have chosen them as my own.

OK -- so every once in a while on a dark quiet night when the Mrs. is off doing something else, and I am home alone. I like to light the room with candles, I put on some Miles Davis or Rachmaninoff, or something really awesome like that, take a bong hit or two, and just relax. I get that strange feeling -- that something -- that je ne seis qua.

Is that what this god-thing is like?

I cannot guide you with respect to the Christian god, as I lost my belief in him while very young. And my current belle is best not introduced for the derail it would introduce. Perhaps, it is not something to be concerned about that there is an experience you might not have had. Especially, perhaps, the experience of god. Other experiences are equally worthy, and the experience of god only receives special mention because of the greatness of the god, not the greatness of the experience itself. All altered perceptions are altered perceptions; things that, if clung to, will take your normal perceptions from you, and leave you with less. "Racing and hunting madden the mind." ~ Lao Tzu

Trying to figure out Apo's position has been driving me bananas since I've got here. xD