(February 19, 2014 at 9:33 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(February 19, 2014 at 6:43 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: It really shouldn't.

People really stretch John 15:19. It may be true that if you are a true Christian ™ the world will hate you. It does not follow that the world hating you makes you a true Christian ™. Being a douche does not make one holy.

My point was that when your beliefs state that all humans are filthy, wicked beings and everyone that doesn't accept your beliefs and your savior deserve to be denied paradise and sentenced to eternal torment, being uncompromising to those beliefs require you to be a dickhead.

So, if The Good News is to be uncompromising, he/she must be a cunt when expressing his/her beliefs.

I'm not sure I agree with that.
Take, as a metaphor, the conversations I've had with smokers. From a professional point of view, I know the damage it does over time and indeed from a personal point of view how hard it is to quit.

When I was doing hypnotherapy, one had to find the "corner" to pick at to motivate people to stop. For some that was improved sporting performance. For others it was improved quality of life, or health, or financial or one of a dozen other things. One had to gently probe to find what was important to that person.

What you DON'T do is walk in the office, slam a picture of a 35 year old cancer victim on the desk and ask the person why they are so fucking selfish they're going to put their kids through the pain of losing a parent before they grow up. Not until you've tried everything else at least.

Regardless of the core belief, there are ways in which a message can be delivered which are more, or less douchy

oh... smoking! That always reminds me of a notice I saw once:
"I find that having sex is much more pleasuring than smoking,
yet you don't see me doing it in your office!"

(or something like that)

(February 20, 2014 at 4:38 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: I'm not sure I agree with that.
Take, as a metaphor, the conversations I've had with smokers. From a professional point of view, I know the damage it does over time and indeed from a personal point of view how hard it is to quit.

When I was doing hypnotherapy, one had to find the "corner" to pick at to motivate people to stop. For some that was improved sporting performance. For others it was improved quality of life, or health, or financial or one of a dozen other things. One had to gently probe to find what was important to that person.

What you DON'T do is walk in the office, slam a picture of a 35 year old cancer victim on the desk and ask the person why they are so fucking selfish they're going to put their kids through the pain of losing a parent before they grow up. Not until you've tried everything else at least.

Regardless of the core belief, there are ways in which a message can be delivered which are more, or less douchy

While I agree with your principle, I find the way that christianity seems phrased to that kind of christian renders the option of being nice about it kind of impossible. To the "we're all worthless sinners!" christian, salvation isn't about helping people to the best possible outcome, it's almost a case of debtors and debt collectors, where god is owed worship, and anyone not doing that- in exactly the same way!- as that particular christian, is being delinquent on a substantial debt.

It's not a case of helping anyone, it's a case of bringing in a criminal, almost.

(February 20, 2014 at 4:49 am)pocaracas Wrote: oh... smoking! That always reminds me of a notice I saw once:
"I find that having sex is much more pleasuring than smoking,
yet you haven't caught me doing it in your office!"

(or something like that)

There mate, fixed it for you

But what about chocolate?

I can have an organismic experiment in the office with chocolate.... Or ice cream ..... Or strawberries / blueberries...



OK I will stop now.

(February 20, 2014 at 7:28 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: I can have an organismic experiment in the office with chocolate.... Or ice cream ..... Or strawberries / blueberries...

I can't...
It's good and all, but not orgasmic.

(February 20, 2014 at 8:46 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(February 20, 2014 at 7:28 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: I can have an organismic experiment in the office with chocolate.... Or ice cream ..... Or strawberries / blueberries...

I can't...
It's good and all, but not orgasmic.

I can but it does depend on who's wearing it.....

(February 20, 2014 at 6:58 am)Esquilax Wrote: While I agree with your principle, I find the way that christianity seems phrased to that kind of christian renders the option of being nice about it kind of impossible. To the "we're all worthless sinners!" christian, salvation isn't about helping people to the best possible outcome, it's almost a case of debtors and debt collectors, where god is owed worship, and anyone not doing that- in exactly the same way!- as that particular christian, is being delinquent on a substantial debt.

It's not a case of helping anyone, it's a case of bringing in a criminal, almost.

This is the part that always gets me about it, the reason why this whole nonsense of 'salvation' feels like a broken tooth in my mouth. If the firefighters who save me from my burning house are also the ones who set fire to my house, do they deserve my thanks and praise? I would consider a rescue the least of what they owed me. Yet, for some reason, this isn't supposed to apply to the great firestarter in the sky.

Salvation is extortion. You'd better praise me, because I won't be responsible for what happens if you don't.

(February 19, 2014 at 2:59 pm)The Good News Wrote: Then He rose from the dead of His own power. He is also the God who has given you your life and yet you wilfully blaspheme Him in despite that. You should really stop doing that, do you not see the universe He has created? He is the Almighty God. You are nothing compared to Him.

Do you guys realize how impotent you make him sound when you say stuff like this? Your god is so weak he can't even make an empty threat without your help.

God loves me, as long as:

I chose the right religion to follow - out of thousands of choices without any evidence to refer to. If I cannot chose I must assume mine (the one that I happen to have been borne into or stumbled across - divine providence?) is the right one, and the only right one.
I follow his instructions, as passed on to me by that religion, to the letter.
I tell God how wonderful he is as often as this correct religion tells me to (upto 5 times per day - is that the record?).
I never demand any evidence of his power.
I never question his power or him.
I must not speak his name.
I cannot ever expect him to contact me but if he does I must immediately comply with his instructions - even if they are to sacrifice my child to him.
Anything I do not understand or has not been explained by science is the work of God.
Anything good is God.
Anything bad is man's freewill, or the devil if needed.
Anything science says that conflicts with what my religion tells me God says must be wrong and I will always side with God until my religion tells me we can now accept that bit of science and then its all OK again.
I must hate those I am told to hate - usually members of other religions and homosexuals and latterly atheists.
I must never object to slavery if my god doesn't. Who am I to object anyway? - I am a slave as well.

God loves me. It is a love incomparable with any other love. Its just so much better than your love. Your love isn't real love like my God's love is for me. Just look what he's done for me.