Quote:(Feymen once said something to the affect that if anyone claims to understand it, they're lying)

Feynman, wasn't that this guy who did some important work 60 years ago?

(March 19, 2014 at 10:32 am)Alex K Wrote:

Quote:(Feymen once said something to the affect that if anyone claims to understand it, they're lying)

Feynman, wasn't that this guy who did some important work 60 years ago?

I'm still drinking morning coffee over here. And I just pulled the graveyard shift.

Soooo shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

(March 19, 2014 at 10:20 am)Ben Davis Wrote: Smart people are better equipped to exploit credulity & ignorance?

I don't doubt that some are jumping on the bandwagon to exploit credulity for fame and fortune.

(March 19, 2014 at 9:46 am)Confused Ape Wrote: Others, however, seem to genuinely believe in the world views they are promoting.

(March 19, 2014 at 10:20 am)Ben Davis Wrote: Keyword: seem

I said 'seem' because I'm not telepathic so don't know what anyone is really thinking. All I can go by is what they say they believe in and what they are doing in relation to what they say they believe in, no matter what their world view. This includes Richard Dawkins - he seems to believe in what he says so I can only assume that he does rather than wondering if he's jumping on the atheist bandwagon just to be controversial.

Seriously, though, some scientists' world views might well be coloured by their background. A few years ago there was a survey of scientists in India and the results were very different to that survey taken of the members of the National Academy Of Science. The full report in PDF format doesn't appear to be available now (or maybe it's been moved elsewhere and I could find it by googling). This is a copy of the article which was printed in the Times Of India -

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet...61908.html

Quote:NEW DELHI: Indian scientists are making rapid advances in their respective
fields but when it comes to God, one in four are firm believers and many
more accept existence of a "higher power."

A survey of 1,100 scientists across 130 universities and research institutes
across the country threw up interesting results as 29 per cent believed in
the philosophy of 'karma', 26 per cent accepted the principle of life after
death and seven per cent researchers gave credence to existence of ghosts.

(March 19, 2014 at 10:25 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Have you read any Robert Anton Wilson?

No, I haven't. I'll google him after I've posted this.

(March 19, 2014 at 10:25 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Why would the world be the shit hole that it is if everything was ultimately created by the observer(s)

We know for a fact that a lot of what makes the world a shit hole is created by humans so there's no need to bring quantum mysticism into it. Maybe our species is just barking mad in the collective.

PS: I've found the survey of Indian Scientists - it makes very interesting reading. This is the part I ended up in after doing a keyword search but anyone who wants to read the entire survey can just scroll up to the beginning.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hB8vm...&q&f=false

I think many scientists will say almost anything if they have a book to sell.

(March 19, 2014 at 5:40 pm)rasetsu Wrote: I think many scientists will say almost anything if they have a book to sell.

It's likely than many do. It's also likely than many really believe what they write in their books. Either way, there's a lot of New Age Quantum ideas going around.

All this hindu cosmology is bunch of bullshit. You find something which you can twist to make it look like big bang and so on and then pretend like hindus knew cosmology. BULLSHIT.

(March 19, 2014 at 5:40 pm)rasetsu Wrote: I think many scientists will say almost anything if they have a book to sell.

*coughLawrenceKrausscough*

Sorry 'bout that.

Lawrence Krauss rocks the house.

He also hasa tendency to make certain claims on the basis of physics in a way that he knows comes off as misleading. Saying that science shows that "the universe came from nothing", by which he means it might have come about via a quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, is very misleading, and he continues to do so. I kind of like him when he doesn't do that or doesn't shit on philosophy for not being science.


I think my favorite physicist is Sean Carroll. Knows his physics and his philosophy, and his knowledge of and adeptness in explaining cosmology to rebutt certain theological claims is really without compare. He's one of the 3 or 4 people I would say definitely beat William Lane Craig in a debate, just a few weeks ago. Watch it if you haven't, it was glorious. :p

(March 19, 2014 at 8:38 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: He also hasa tendency to make certain claims on the basis of physics in a way that he knows comes off as misleading. Saying that science shows that "the universe came from nothing", by which he means it might have come about via a quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, is very misleading, and he continues to do so. I kind of like him when he doesn't do that or doesn't shit on philosophy for not being science.


I think my favorite physicist is Sean Carroll. Knows his physics and his philosophy, and his knowledge of and adeptness in explaining cosmology to rebutt certain theological claims is really without compare. He's one of the 3 or 4 people I would say definitely beat William Lane Craig in a debate, just a few weeks ago. Watch it if you haven't, it was glorious. :p

But the universe could come from fluctuations. Which is what Krauss is saying. He is not wrong.