I agree that it could have, I never claimed otherwise. I said that Krauss calling that event the "universe coming from nothing" is misleading because it implies something else and he knows it is.

(March 19, 2014 at 8:45 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: I agree that it could have, I never claimed otherwise. I said that Krauss calling that event the "universe coming from nothing" is misleading because it implies something else and he knows it is.

What does it imply? There was no space, time and so on. Besids negative + positive energy = 0. It really does come from nothing^^

Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that physiological system. Second, biological phenomena at all levels can be totally understood in terms of atomic physics, that is, through the action and interaction of the component atoms of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and so forth. Third and last, atomic physics, which is now understood most fully by means of quantum mechanics, must be formulated with the mind as a primitive component of the system... We have thus, in separate steps, gone around an epistemology circle..."

Try to understand how that works... >_<

(March 19, 2014 at 9:06 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that ...

THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but my particular one can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

(March 19, 2014 at 9:21 pm)GirlyMan Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:06 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Read this great quote a few moments ago in the book I'm currently reading. The quote is by Harold J. Morowitz:

"First, the human mind, including consciousness and reflective thought, can be explained by activities of the central nervous system, which, in turn, can be reduced to the biological structure and function of that ...

THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but mine can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:21 pm)GirlyMan Wrote: THE human mind can be explained in those terms, but mine can't because "I" am nothing more than an emergent property of an incredibly complex running program constantly changing state. I'm thinking complexity and unexpected emergent properties go hand in hand. ... And shit.

Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination and analysis of the combination of the individual parts.

(March 19, 2014 at 9:26 pm)GirlyMan Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Just curious, how do you define "emergent property" Whenever I hear that term I think of this comic:

Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination of the combination of the individual parts.

It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

(March 19, 2014 at 9:29 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:26 pm)GirlyMan Wrote: Behavior which could not have been reasonably anticipated from an examination of the combination of the individual parts.

It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

Fuck dude, that's what I just said. And presumptuous? No. I'm suggesting a threshold degree of complexity after which any system will exhibit emergent properties.

(March 19, 2014 at 9:35 pm)GirlyMan Wrote:

(March 19, 2014 at 9:29 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: It's kind of presumptuous to apply that to consciousness, isn't it? Who's to say that if a complete network of neural activity was sufficiently analyzed and understood, consciousness couldn't be "easily" replicated?

Fuck dude, that's what I just said. And presumptuous? No. I'm suggesting a threshold degree of complexity after which any system will exhibit emergent properties.

Oh okay. I just think "emergent properties" causes more confusion than clarity.. but you mean by it something like a spandrel?