(July 13, 2014 at 10:51 am)OceanWave Wrote: From the atheist viewpoint. There is no moral absolutes. Only relativism. You certainly can't sit her and say stealing from orphans is "wrong" you can't say anything is "wrong "

You may as well have typed "I'm ignorant of ethics". As far as moral absolutes go, look up Euthyphro dilemma and get back to us.

Also, there is no single atheist ethical viewpoint.

(July 13, 2014 at 10:54 am)OceanWave Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 10:51 am)Stimbo Wrote: And just as with my earlier post to which I eagerly await a response, why do you need a book to tell you the difference between what is right and what is wrong? Is that the only thing keeping you from doing these things? If not, why do you still cling to the book?

It's Allah telling us what is wrong as right. That's absolute to us

In your life, right and wrong is relative. Which is flawed in my belief. You're free to believe what you wan

I'm glad you feel that way. I believe I'll tell your Allah to go fuck a cactus.

(July 13, 2014 at 10:54 am)Blackout Wrote:

Quote:From the atheist viewpoint. There is no moral absolutes. Only relativism. You certainly can't sit her and say stealing from orphans is "wrong" you can't say anything is "wrong "

First, if the only thing keeping your moral integrity is your god, you're the one who has serious judgement issues. And second, I'm an atheist and I believe inside each society objective morals exist, a minimum of consensus everyone has... As for absolute morals there is no such thing. You committed the false dilemma fallacy, your saying it's either absolute morals V moral relativism, while forgetting moral objectivism. If you think all atheists support moral relativism you are wrong. Plus you claim people either don't have morals or believe in god.

False statement attributed to me, your last sentence. Stick to what I say, no need to make things up.

You also stated " everybody has" which is a huge generalization and obviously incorrect as crimes are committed everyday. So those people obviously don't have consensus. That's common sense. But common sense is not so common anymore.

I believe you are the one with serious issues. As Allah has decreed the best governing rules possible, that are absolute. While you may decide you like some rules or don't like some rules. Your disbelief in moral absolutism is the real problem.

Quote:It's Allah telling us what is wrong as right. That's absolute to us

In your life, right and wrong is relative. Which is flawed in my belief. You're free to believe what you wan

There are atheists who believe in an objective morality. There are some who believe in moral absolutes.

(July 13, 2014 at 10:56 am)Cato Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 10:51 am)OceanWave Wrote: From the atheist viewpoint. There is no moral absolutes. Only relativism. You certainly can't sit her and say stealing from orphans is "wrong" you can't say anything is "wrong "

You may as well have typed "I'm ignorant of ethics". As far as moral absolutes go, look up Euthyphro dilemma and get back to us.

Also, there is no single atheist ethical viewpoint.

We got a big timer philosopher here stating the obvious. Lol

Obviously there is no single atheist ethical viewpoint. That's the problem here.

(July 13, 2014 at 11:00 am)OceanWave Wrote: You also stated " everybody has" which is a huge generalization and obviously incorrect as crimes are committed everyday. So those people obviously don't have consensus. That's common sense. But common sense is not so common anymore.

I believe you are the one with serious issues. As Allah has decreed the best governing rules possible, that are absolute.

You stated "the best governing rules possible" which is a huge generalization and obviously incorrect as muslim theocracies show a much lower technological/scientific/artistic output than secular democracies. That's common sense.... But it seems common sense isn't so common in muslim minds.

(July 13, 2014 at 11:01 am)Natachan Wrote:

Quote:It's Allah telling us what is wrong as right. That's absolute to us

In your life, right and wrong is relative. Which is flawed in my belief. You're free to believe what you wan

There are atheists who believe in an objective morality. There are some who believe in moral absolutes.

And who is deciding on these absolutes these atheists are beleiving?

An atheists could say " I believe killing innocents is ok". That would be neither wrong or right according to atheists as this individual is deciding on his standards, which would a relative to an atheists who doesn't believe in killing innocents. Every atheists is different as they have no absolute morals to guide them besides the morals they were religiously inspired from

@OceanWave
-You can listen to what Christians say that's your business. It's obvious there are differences between Islam and Christianity
Yes, there are differences. But there is also one similarity: both claim to be the ultimate truth. They can't both be true at the same time. How can I know that you're telling the truth, while the other side says that you're wrong and that they're telling the truth?

-Allah never says infidels should be killed just for being polytheist a. That's untrue.
Well, if that's the case, why does He command the Muslims to kill them? Why does He want them dead? The Quran does not mention any provocation on the polytheistic side, Allah just commands His followers to slaughter them for just being "infidels".

-Allah can not be comprehended by sight 100% , that's the finite answer
Alright, thanks.

Oceanwave, what size cups do you suspect Allah will construct for your personalized virgins in Paradise?

Quote:You also stated " everybody has" which is a huge generalization and obviously incorrect as crimes are committed everyday. So those people obviously don't have consensus. That's common sense. But common sense is not so common anymore.

By everybody I mean above 90% of society. How many people practice crimes? And better, how many of them consider their crimes moral? If you knew anything about criminology, you'd know impulses and passionate crimes are common, only a minority of criminals or people will consider something like murdering or rape morally acceptable, most people will reject such view... On the other hand, your religion seems to consider both morally commendable, so my bet is you're the ones going against moral objectivism if we consider it exists.

By the way, common sense is the main cause of religion, as opposed to scientific knowledge, the main cause of non religion. There is no place for common sense in a rational debate, only logical arguments and critical thinking

Quote:I believe you are the one with serious issues. As Allah has decreed the best governing rules possible, that are absolute. While you may decide you like some rules or don't like some rules. Your disbelief in moral absolutism is the real problem.

Allah can go fu... Oh wait he can't because he doesn't exist.

So raping my wife and beating her is great? And murdering apostates? Is stoning people to death a good form of punishment? What about cutting hand from thieves? Meh, you sound like someone who's been so brainwashed I even feel some pity of you...