But B, being left alone by God IS the punishment! What a loss! A dirty trick!

Lmao.

I think the connection between morality and justice is solid R.

Morality: "conformity to the rules of right conduct" - dictionary.com

Morally, I wouldn't sell adult mags. I wouldn't impinge on the rights of others, I wouldn't steal, I wouldn't lie...

Those might not be things you would object morally to. So morality is subjective.

I've tried to address you Rhythm, by writing out what i think it is that you want to hear, but it feels like I'm doing all of the work. This is how I always remember conversations with you going. You keep alluding to Intel which in the end you simply do not possess.

So after trying more than I probably should, I'm going to leave you to either produce something of substance or not. I'm tired chasing this wagon. Hitting me with a stick has worked. Well done.

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(September 28, 2014 at 10:58 am)Brakeman Wrote: I don't want any punishment. I want god to leave me alone, that is all.
No one chooses a punishment, if is forced upon them by someone else in power.

God is offering you something good. This is a constant. You are in punishment now. Your life isn't all it could be, and a gift is being offered to you to reverse that.

Again, God isn't punishing you. You are. God is trying to do the opposite.

(September 28, 2014 at 10:21 am)Rhythm Wrote: "Bruce should sacrifice his life for my parking tickets - this is clearly immoral, and therefore acceptance of such payment is immoral."

Of course morality is subjective, and? You are free to disagree with me here - in fact...I encourage you to do so.

The idea of God only insinuates fear and punishment to those who believe it to be true.

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Throwing off the chains of guilt and superstition that bound the likes of frodo is the first step towards the liberation of the spirit, and perhaps more importantly, a clear head.

So, God creates mankind. With "free will." Then, when man chooses to not follow any religion (using free will), God gets mad. God "created" places called heaven and hell and we end up in either place, depending on if we pick the "right" religion and jump through all of its hoops or not. Either God (the Abrahamic version) is a dunce, or he is a petulant tyrant.

That's the gist of Christianity. And I would much rather go on believing that desperate fools invented the Bible than considering it being the "word of a god." The people who put together the Bible had no conception of science and how to better explain the origin of man.

Interesting to note, is if you look into the history of how the Christian church handled Darwin's theory of evolution, you will see that before that, Genesis was taught as literal truth. (that's a fact) Then, the TOE came on the scene, and oops. The Church started teaching (slowly and gradually over time) that believers don't need to take Genesis as literal.

The Word of God changed over one dude's "theory?"

Meanwhile, fundies still believe it to be literal and don't "believe" in the TOE. Lol Religion at its best.

I'm done with believing that I'm a horrible person "unworthy" of an imagined place called heaven. If only I do this or that, however...God will forgive me.

And atheists are considered arrogant by theists?
lol

I'm surprised how quickly you abandon reasoned argument pickup. Your continuing input looks petty and really disappointing.

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(September 28, 2014 at 11:50 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(September 28, 2014 at 10:21 am)Rhythm Wrote: "Bruce should sacrifice his life for my parking tickets - this is clearly immoral, and therefore acceptance of such payment is immoral."

Of course morality is subjective, and? You are free to disagree with me here - in fact...I encourage you to do so.

You just enjoy the hunt right?

I've tried to address it. It's too absurd. I can't think of it in moral terms because I can't link it. We're conditioned to think of any killing as immoral. I have more of a problem with killing animals that I do with this scenario. Is that an answer?

(September 28, 2014 at 11:57 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I'm surprised how quickly you abandon reasoned argument pickup. Your continuing input looks petty and really disappointing.

Reasoned argument requires two people willing to engage reasonably. When you've found someone who can articulate your view in such a manner, be sure to bring him on board.

(September 28, 2014 at 11:57 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You just enjoy the hunt right?

I've tried to address it. It's too absurd. I can't think of it in moral terms because I can't link it. We're conditioned to think of any killing as immoral. I have more of a problem with killing animals that I do with this scenario. Is that an answer?

It is an answer, yes. Do you think that others find it so difficult to link this, that others would have more of a problem with killing a mollusk than they would with killing Bruce over their parking tickets? How could you even have a problem with killing a mollusk (or a cow, or a pig, or a sheep, or a dog..or..well...anything) if killing Bruce is a relative non-issue....upon what grounds could you make such a determination?

What could possibly have led to such a difficult scenario for you? Is this a position you've taken as a troll, fully aware that you cannot proceed to defend vicarious redemption beyond this point, or are these your earnest thoughts on the matter?
(clearly I'm flabbergasted...even I had a higher opinion of you than this statement would warrant, it's very difficult for me to accept, you understand? Ultimately opinions are like assholes....but this would be a terminus of discussion, obviously.....)

The problem I often find with these topics, is that theists don't address the actual remarks of the atheists they are debating. The "rebuttals" are typically in believer-ese. "You send yourself to hell, God doesn't." On and on it goes.

An atheist brings up facts. Theists offer rebuttals back using religion. Unfortunately fr0d0, you do this a lot. You don't address the uncomfortable facts, you just offer faith based statements.

But faith isn't about objective truth, so your opinion is all you have. I'm not judging you, but your beliefs are not provable. (the Bible isn't proof)

Ah, almost forgot....yes, Frodo, I do enjoy the hunt. I live for it, I feel it course through me with every breath. Eviscerating your statements, like shooting a deer, has a palpable taste in my mouth..........

-but I don't make excuses for that behavior, and here we have 20 some odd pages of excuses........masquerading as piety.....