(January 13, 2015 at 5:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 5:47 am)Alex K Wrote: I appreciate the statement.

As a free service though, I've highlighted the parts for you that you should have left out.

Just so the reader -in case they didn't know already- know & make sure, that not even once Islamic verse supports killing a person who mocks the prophet.
Since you mentioned it & highlighted it ; a verse from the Quran shall do the trick :

Way to miss my point. What Chuck said.

I think the death toll is something like 99% to 1% against Muslims (or people who's national identity is).

You're right Atlas the west don't report their own atrocities so much. What we need desperately are the peaceful, tolerant and loving element that is in all of us to stand against all of the war mongering hate speech fueled by our media which just happens to be controlled by media moguls who have an interest in conflict to control oil prices.

"Muslims" is such a broad term.
How about, we use "nutjobs" to describe the real problematic people?

OH, and along the way it wouldn't hurt if muslims, christians, jews, hindus, etc would stop making their children believe in unsupported fairy tales... that's just wrong.

(January 14, 2015 at 6:35 am)pocaracas Wrote: "Muslims" is such a broad term.
How about, we use "nutjobs" to describe the real problematic people?

OH, and along the way it wouldn't hurt if muslims, christians, jews, hindus, etc would stop making their children believe in unsupported fairy tales... that's just wrong.

Couldn't agree more. Leave your poor child's mind alone, let it develop all its skills before you thrust your nonsense at it. If you're confident it's so obviously true, then they should accept it at any age.

(January 14, 2015 at 3:10 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You're right Atlas the west don't report their own atrocities so much. What we need desperately are the peaceful, tolerant and loving element that is in all of us to stand against all of the war mongering hate speech fueled by our media which just happens to be controlled by media moguls who have an interest in conflict to control oil prices.

I have an even bigger problem with the news not reporting on how many muslims are killed by muslim fundamentalists on a daily basis. They don't count and not reporting on this issue paints the picture of radicals only being out to kill westerners and therefore all muslims have to be in league with them.

(January 13, 2015 at 7:05 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 6:49 pm)Brakeman Wrote: If allah and his buddy mo' the prophet, piss be upon him, write a a book of rules and instructions for the people and it is not perfectly clear and unmistakable in every meaning so that so many muslims do incorrectly interpret it as an instigation to violence and evil, then both allah and mo' are culpable in the violence that ensues from the obfuscation.

They don't get a free ride yelling fire in a crowded theater. They would have known how easily religious ideas can bring forth blood baths, so they owed mankind a perfectly referenced and clear book that would have explained within each possible-to-misconstrue point the counters to every conceivable alternate meaning. It wouldn't matter if the book was ten times longer than the bare outline version, lives are at stake.

If you are silly enough to believe in flying meta-physical angels and flying horses, then pretty much any example of the irrationality of gods is likely to fall on deaf ears. That is so sad.

That's cool.
I'm a believer in freedom of speech & it's a two sided road ; my opinion would be : check the biggest two wars in human history, were they caused by islam or by nationalism ?

Yes, excuse my savagery. I'm a stupid person who believes in another world, believes in love -yep i'm a sissy-, believes that a human being is more than just a physical body. I believe in emotions & I believe that someday i will find my soulmate, who would love me as much as i love her. Excuse me, but ali baba is a little savage who needs attitude adjustment by studs like you, who remembers freedom of speech?

Wow, what a pathetic non-answer. In what way do the causes of other wars have anything to do with allah and mo's responsibility to be clear and unmistakable in their teaching. (It doesn't, You're just reaching for straws.)

Your "god" is shown to be illogical because he is purported to have produced an imperfect book with an imperfect message.

Your imaginary stories of flying horses and visiting angels are made fun of because they are known not to exist. Yet you avoid facing this truth and instead change the subject to nationalistic wars as a means of dodging the uncomfortable truth.

As far as "nationalistic wars go, you are very much understating the role that religion plays in all wars because most countries' nationalistic fervent is drummed by the religious. The united states is a good case in point. No atheistic leader could get enough support to enact a traffic law here, let alone incite the country to war. The religious elements of nationalism were very strong in the 1940's. The fact that not many of the religious elements were islamic is not rooted in the peacefulness of islam but rather in the weakness of the countries crippled by islam. When one's life is overtaken by slavery to silly religious ritual and bronze age beliefs, they miss the science advancement bandwagon.

(January 13, 2015 at 7:05 pm)AtlasS Wrote: I think it's pretty obvious. Actually, a very big muslim crowd adapted the same concepts & faith I have, but sadly they were chased & killed either by nationalists or by Jihadists.

Look, it's all in there. You don't agree with some of it - your very being is repulsed by it. That's okay, neither do I (and so is mine), and neither (so sayeth you) do many other muslims. That would be a fantastic message, but instead we get dissonant brinksmanship. Well, that ledge you're standing on is the springboard from which the "wild animals" jump. If you could recognize it in yourself (and this goes for all of us) then we might actually have a shot at dialogue between each other...and even "them".

Quote:Excuse Aladin for his savagery. Aladin is a wild animal

I won't, but he's probably not a wild animal either. There isn't likely to be much difference between he, you, and I. Internalize that, and then you'll have some inkling as to why I hold the opinion that I do. If you're imagining that you simply could not believe in something if it were horrid, you'd be wrong. If you're imagining that nothing could incite you to action in the way that those "wild animals" act, you'd be wrong. -That-.....is precisely the problem with islam. It's uncomfortable for some to think about...but those jihadis aren't just jihadis. They're family men, they keep their word, they work hard. They believe in goodness, and they believe that they are good. Salt of the earth. They can make the same claim that you did;

"If all of this that I believe in, if all of this that I'm doing, were evil, savage, untrue....... then I wouldn't believe in it, I couldn't"...........and then.......:boom:

(January 13, 2015 at 6:26 pm)AtlasS Wrote: This is the wrong way to do it ; nobody reads a book like that.
My brain asks : annoy ? how ? allah, what would annoy you ?

Dude, we don't need convincing of the 'right' way to read your shitty book - tell it to the jihadists, the murderers, the religiously insane.

(January 14, 2015 at 1:53 pm)Chas Wrote:

(January 13, 2015 at 6:26 pm)AtlasS Wrote: This is the wrong way to do it ; nobody reads a book like that.
My brain asks : annoy ? how ? allah, what would annoy you ?

Dude, we don't need convincing of the 'right' way to read your shitty book - tell it to the jihadists, the murderers, the religiously insane.

...the ones that got brain-washed by that book.

Not everyone reads the Quran and interpret it in the same way you did, atlas.

(January 13, 2015 at 5:32 am)AtlasS Wrote: The Iraq war butchered 2 Million -mostly Muslims- by the hands of the U.S & its allies (including other Muslim Arabs). But the world never condemned the Iraq war this harsh, or even put forth a glorious march like the one in France.

The world did protest the war in Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_ag...e_Iraq_War

You are re-imagining history so it fits your preconceptions I'm afraid.

Quote:How many crimes also took place & were hidden ? committed by non-Muslims ? Though ; the media doesn't give it that much of attention, even though the casualties are more severe & the attack is more more more brutal.

Are you talking about people dying in the war in Iraq. If so then you will be aware that most of the muslims killed were at the hands of the muslims traditional enemies, other muslims.

Quote:What about the drones ? robots are making a revolution now, mainly tested on Muslims. All kinds of new technologies were tested on Muslims, in some cases miss-shoot or go wrong to kill civilians, in numbers greater than the incident in France over a longer period. But the freedom of speech doesn't include these people.

Firstly these are weapons of war used to project power in enemy territory against a well organised and funded opponent who think nothing of shooting up entire schools full of children.

Secondly use of these drones are controversial and under constant scrutiny and discussion.

Quote:What happened in France is bad. But

Here is were you try to justify it. "It was bad BUT"

Quote: Muslims have been living it too for a while, and the effect of poverty, wars & conflicts started to show up : insane killers are spawning because of the stress. Does that justify their murder ? no. They are murderers ; too.

They aren't "murderers too" they are just murderers. do not try and equate a slaying in a secular nation of cartoonists with western intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan which were wars.

I personally never understood the justification for the Iraq war and certainly did not approve of it.

But what it wasn't was the deliberate targeting of civilians. The western powers have very strict rules of engagement and when this is not followed there are consequences. This is in stark contrast to the "lets kill as many unarmed people as we can" outlook that seems to be the flavour of the day amongst Jihadists.

Quote:Via freedom of speech reaching everybody, the fuel for such attacks will be lessened ; emptied a little. Every criminal act is not welcomed ; even if it was from a french drone in the afghani mountains.

There you go again equating war with terrorism, stop it.

Quote:We must all work to build the luxury of that when we avoid killing we don't get killed -no matter what we do or say-, and when we meet others & we don't get judged or carry the sins of somebody else. life is a precious gift from god to humanity ; the brain is also another precious gift.

Agreed

Quote:A French citizen doesn't carry the weight of a corrupt politician. An American citizen doesn't carry the weight of the army. A Muslim doesn't carry the weight of Osama & his kins.

I don't think anyone here would equate all muslims with terrorists.
In my experience most people of any group are nice and just try to rub along.

Its the true believers you have to watch out for.

That goes for all the faiths.