We're not becoming atheists because we're looking for excuses to reject the bible. We're becoming atheists because we realize the bible isn't objective, and we understand what's really going on through contemporary cultures when judaism and christianity were young.

What little truth there is in the bible isn't unique to it.

(February 17, 2015 at 1:38 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 10:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Those who deny hell or make it a place for the unforgiven to go and suffer little or no consequences, have no respect for His sovereignty.

GC

You're goddamned straight I've got no respect for the object of your fetish.

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(February 16, 2015 at 9:04 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm one who doesn't believe in eternal torment, but I'm not quite that nice of a christian. Jesus definitely spoke of hell and it's not a nice place, since he said it would better to cut your arm off or gouge your eye out than to go there.

The very same verse you're referencing has Jesus calling hell "the eternal fire". That's a mighty fine cherry-picker you've got there.

Aren't you worried about directly contradicting the god you claim to worship?

Lek / Parkers Tan
From what I understand the lake of fire burns up the
"devil beast and false prophet"
(Satan/Antichrist/FalseProphet, opposite of Holy Trinity)
so by removing those influences, the souls are saved.

Man is made in the image of god
body/mind/spirit as a microcosm or reflection
of God/Christ/HolySpirit

So that part is pure and eternal, and it's the corruption
that is removed and burned away "cast into the lake of fire"

Disclaimer: Of course, I was told I am going to hell for teaching that all souls can be saved. So only listen to this interpretation if you are okay with whatever consequences result from this interpretation.

I'll take none of the interpretations, thanks. They're all bollocks.

(February 17, 2015 at 1:38 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Aren't you worried about directly contradicting the god you claim to worship?

Hm. Technically it would seem that a fire being eternal doesn't necessarily mean the people in it will be there forever.

For what it's worth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation

(February 16, 2015 at 4:58 pm)Cinjin Wrote: It seems I'm meeting more and more Christians who are disavowing their devotion to eternal torment by their "loving" god.

Of recent I took to calling them the Play Nice Christians (a close relative of the Convenient Christian).

At any rate, one of these luke-warm half-assed mindless brother-in-christ types imparted upon me that Hell was not necessarily a bad place at all, and that their god, in his infinite wisdom, was able to customize each eternal punishment for each of the 85 billion souls he's sent there (give or take 10 billion).

Yep, hell for the average non-believer like myself won't actually be all that bad. True, we won't get to sing songs about Jesus, dance naked for the angry wizard himself, or tour the cosmos in high angelic fashion, but apparently god may allow us to hang out with our friends and have a smoke now and again.

So what of it christians? Is your fellow brother-in-christ correct? Is your god going to have a version of hell that's more like a cosmic slap on the wrist???

It amazes me what length the sheep will go to in order to circumvent the rules of that angry Hebrew god. Just sayin.

I would admit that many Christians are indeed disavowing God. For a lot of thinking people, what their particular religion teaches doesn't make a lot of sense in light of some of the things that modern science offers.

I hope I won't get into trouble for suggesting this, but I find that sometimes all of Christianity gets lumped together as if we all believed exactly the same things. It seems it should be obvious that that could not be the case. How many thousands of denominations are there?

If I may: Mormons have no concept of hell as do most of the rest of Christianity. Allow me to outline the LDS understanding of the here after.

Mormons believe that when we die, we all go to one of two places to await judgment day. The determination as to which of these two places one goes can be looked upon as an arraignment. The places are either paradise or spirit prison. It is like in paradise, one is freed to go about on their own recognizance. In spirit prison, one is bound over for trial. Spirit prison can be looked on as a kind of hell mostly because those that go there aren't exactly happy.

On the day of judgment, the behaviors and actions toward others are considered and the individual is then assigned either punishment or reward. There are three possible kingdoms. The highest of these is for those who have kept the commandments of God and have made the necessary covenants and have received the necessary ordinances for that kingdom.

The other two kingdoms together can be considered a hell, because according to LDS understanding, hell is defined as eternal separation from God. Prior to anyone assigned to either of these two places, and depending on the severity of the crimes committed while in mortality, a penalty of suffering must be paid. But LDS do not believe this suffering to be of eternal duration. Once the penalty has been paid, the individual goes to the appropriate kingdom where he will dwell with as much peace and happiness as he was wiling to accept as indicated by his choices in mortality.

Welcome, again, ether.

So what is your evidence for this spirit prison/paradise?

(February 16, 2015 at 10:57 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 10:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Those who deny hell or make it a place for the unforgiven to go and suffer little or no consequences, have no respect for His sovereignty.

GC

If your god really did make a pit of fire to send everyone he didn't like to be tortured for eternity, there's nothing respectable about him.

There will be an eternity of torment, not from God, but from the individuals that are there, they torment their own selves, this is how the sins of each will have there own consequences. This is how the torment of some will be far worse than others, they suffer because of what they have done individually. those in hell will be their own torment, God has nothing to do with that part, it's the individuals doing, crazy but fits the scriptures. You don't like it take it to God.

GC

(February 17, 2015 at 5:42 pm)ether-ore Wrote: How many thousands of denominations are there?

The number I often see quoted here and elsewhere is 40,000 christian denominations

(February 17, 2015 at 2:00 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 10:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Those who deny hell or make it a place for the unforgiven to go and suffer little or no consequences, have no respect for His sovereignty.

GC

More likely, they have this thing called empathy. They can't imagine God doing anything as evil as sending someone to a place where they are eternally tortured. Even we fallen humans are better than that.

No you're not, it will be you who determines the torment you'll have for eternity by the life you live against God in this life. God sends no one to hell people choose not to live with God forever. People do not have to choose hell, they have to unchoose it so to speak.

GC

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(February 17, 2015 at 12:42 pm)robvalue Wrote: You think I deserve to be tortured for using the brain God gave me, in the best way I can?

You will, if you do not choose differently, be in hell because you didn't liesten to God and us your brain.

GC

(February 17, 2015 at 5:42 pm)ether-ore Wrote: If I may: Mormons have no concept of hell as do most of the rest of Christianity. Allow me to outline the LDS understanding of the here after.

Mormons believe that when we die, we all go to one of two places to await judgment day. The determination as to which of these two places one goes can be looked upon as an arraignment. The places are either paradise or spirit prison. It is like in paradise, one is freed to go about on their own recognizance. In spirit prison, one is bound over for trial. Spirit prison can be looked on as a kind of hell mostly because those that go there aren't exactly happy.

On the day of judgment, the behaviors and actions toward others are considered and the individual is then assigned either punishment or reward. There are three possible kingdoms. The highest of these is for those who have kept the commandments of God and have made the necessary covenants and have received the necessary ordinances for that kingdom.

The other two kingdoms together can be considered a hell, because according to LDS understanding, hell is defined as eternal separation from God. Prior to anyone assigned to either of these two places, and depending on the severity of the crimes committed while in mortality, a penalty of suffering must be paid. But LDS do not believe this suffering to be of eternal duration. Once the penalty has been paid, the individual goes to the appropriate kingdom where he will dwell with as much peace and happiness as he was wiling to accept as indicated by his choices in mortality.

That's not as bad as the bulk of Christianity but still has a few fatal flaws:

The idea that someone must suffer for transgressions is very primitive. The need for revenge is a base emotion that can be overcome with intellect. If we can do it, obviously God can do it.

Since God is omniscient and creates everything, evil is all on him. You can argue free-will all you want but it doesn't matter. When God creates someone and gives him or her free-will, God knows exactly what he/she is going to do with it. Why create someone when you know that person is going to do evil?

If anyone deserves any amount of punishment, it's God.

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(February 17, 2015 at 6:34 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(February 17, 2015 at 2:00 am)AFTT47 Wrote: More likely, they have this thing called empathy. They can't imagine God doing anything as evil as sending someone to a place where they are eternally tortured. Even we fallen humans are better than that.

No you're not, it will be you who determines the torment you'll have for eternity by the life you live against God in this life. God sends no one to hell people choose not to live with God forever. People do not have to choose hell, they have to unchoose it so to speak.

GC

Really bad answer. Regardless of how you try to spin it, God created the system that torments. And I obviously do not choose Hell. How could I when I don't recognize that it or God exists?