(May 1, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Hatshepsut Wrote: Note that little word, "psychologically." Oracles were meant to provide true answers, and until science supplanted them, they did so to the comfort and satisfaction of the people using them. You must remember that pre-scientific people didn't have the background and education you take for granted today. They got comfort where they could. Psychologists know that a feeling of comfort is important enough to human well-being that humans will spend considerable time trying to make themselves more comfortable.

The atheistic belief system you see on this forum and elsewhere has formulaic texts, iconography, recognition rituals, and many of the other trappings familiar from the old religions. It's that tribe thing, baby!

I see a lot of falsities when it comes to what you think atheism is. Also, you are right that people turned to oracles (the supernatural) back in those days. Once they were replaced with science, they were obsolete and recognized as inefficient. We will not forsake science for the belief of the supernatural god(s) you call your own or that others claim the existence of. Those beings will forever be described as the "God of the Gap".

I don't know how you can tell we are getting emotional, hatsch. We are simply replying to what we see to be incorrect assessments.

I'm calm as you like

You can call science whatever you like, I don't use science as my identity.

Which is also quite funny, when you think about it. A lot of us are agnostic atheists...making no claims for or against your god(s). We just don't believe. So why become hostile towards us and claim you know how we are feeling or what is going through our minds? We are all individuals with different mindsets, and I liken us to crayons. We are all essentially crayons, but we have different colors that define us, which is made up of our views and opinions. Strange metaphor, I know...but it sounded good in my head.

(May 1, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Hatshepsut Wrote: The atheistic belief system you see on this forum and elsewhere.....

Here's the 'atheistic belief system':

We don't believe in any deity.

That's it. Literally. Nothing else is attached to that.

(May 1, 2015 at 12:04 pm)robvalue Wrote: There is no atheistic belief system. You seem to have some misconceptions, equating atheism with scepticism...

Many atheists talk like they're coming from a belief system. They fight for what they believe in. They get angry and indignant if they are challenged. They consider themselves "right" and all others "wrong." At risk of repeating myself, they also have standard formulas used in speech or writing, icons such as the "atom" logo or pictures of galaxies emerging from the big bang, and codewords or phrases by which they recognize fellow atheists. These are all the earmarks of a faith. I just don't buy the denial I hear, "we don't believe in anything."

I realize atheism includes diversity and don't group them all together en bloc. But really, every human being holds a belief system of some kind, whether it's simply personal opinion or identification with an organized body of opinion-makers. We can't turn off that part of our nature as if it were a faucet.

I don't fault atheists for what they choose to do with their consciences, or blame them for understandable defense of their own stances. I merely refuse to believe they are Vulcans like Mr. Spock who make choices uninformed by emotion.  

(May 1, 2015 at 12:16 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't know how you can tell we are getting emotional, hatsch.

It comes with experience smoothing the customers' ruffled archaeopteryx feathers in the commercial dining room, a place much like where the Royal Society used to meet in the early days of science. Albeit my antennae don't work as well online as they do at the table.

Meanwhile, I'd better get off the horn now lest I hog space here. My thanks to everyone.  

You have made your own generalisations about atheism. That is unfounded.

Yes, every atheist will have beliefs. But that's not the same as them all sharing the same beliefs.

And no one claimed atheists have no emotions... I really can't follow what you're saying anymore.

I won't comment further, I'll leave you to your opinions

(May 1, 2015 at 12:39 pm)Hatshepsut Wrote:

(May 1, 2015 at 12:04 pm)robvalue Wrote: There is no atheistic belief system. You seem to have some misconceptions, equating atheism with scepticism...

Many atheists talk like they're coming from a belief system. They fight for what they believe in. They get angry and indignant if they are challenged. They consider themselves "right" and all others "wrong." At risk of repeating myself, they also have standard formulas used in speech or writing, icons such as the "atom" logo or pictures of galaxies emerging from the big bang, and codewords or phrases by which they recognize fellow atheists.

I am so disappointed that I never received my user manual, badge, flag, and secret decoder ring.

Quote:These are all the earmarks of a faith. I just don't buy the denial I hear, "we don't believe in anything."

Your incredulity is not an argument.

Quote:I realize atheism includes diversity and don't group them all together en bloc. But really, every human being holds a belief system of some kind, whether it's simply personal opinion or identification with an organized body of opinion-makers. We can't turn off that part of our nature as if it were a faucet.

And that diversity is what makes your contention rather weak.

Quote:I don't fault atheists for what they choose to do with their consciences, or blame them for understandable defense of their own stances. I merely refuse to believe they are Vulcans like Mr. Spock who make choices uninformed by emotion.  

I suggest you stop generalizing about a diverse group.

Quote:

(May 1, 2015 at 12:16 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't know how you can tell we are getting emotional, hatsch.

It comes with experience smoothing the customers' ruffled archaeopteryx feathers in the commercial dining room, a place much like where the Royal Society used to meet in the early days of science. Albeit my antennae don't work as well online as they do at the table.

Meanwhile, I'd better get off the horn now lest I hog space here. My thanks to everyone.  

Your experience in the commercial dining room? Huh?

Could someone let me in on what the atheist belief system is?

I've been one for almost 3 decades but nobody included me in on this.

Cheers for your help.

I don't see where a single atheist has ever said "I don't believe in anything". Yet you said that in the very next post, literally five minutes afterwards, in which you were told the true atheist position.

I am having a hard time understanding what it is you are trying to convey. Are you seriously attempting to tell a group of predominately atheists that they are actually religious? Maybe I am not reading properly, but that is what it looks like. It is completely and totally possible to not believe in religion. As I was saying before, we are not saying that a divine being does or does not exist (at least most of us aren't). However, we do not believe in any religion or god(s) that are currently around. So yes, it is possible to not have any beliefs in any god. To say otherwise is just ignorance in its most simple form.