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I think it was the American Supreme court who addressed the issue of Mormon polygamy by saying "You can 'believe' whatever you want, but you can't 'do' whatever you want."
Wise words that all religions would do well to take heed of. Islam included.
I have my own damaging, personal experiences with the hypocrisy, bigotry and sheer unmitigated evil of Islam. I would probably be married now if it weren't that mind numbingly despotic and perverse doctrine. My personal experiences clearly cloud my judgement on the issue, but I'd like to see that small minded, insidious little faith wiped off the face of the earth and all record of it scrubbed from the collective memory. I personally want nothing less than oblivion for it. Eradication is not enough for me. I want it to have never existed at all.
That's probably the best reason why I should not be in charge.
September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm (This post was last modified: September 27, 2010 at 7:44 pm by Skipper.)
(September 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm)Rayaan Wrote:
(September 27, 2010 at 6:48 pm)A Theist Wrote: Murder, terrorrism, and flying passenger planes into buildings pleases the creator?
No, there are other more effective ways to please the Creator.
I think the problem is not with Islam but only with the Muslims who do those things. I don't support such violence to spread a religion.
More effective ways? So those are ways though? See below why Islam is the issue and not just Muslims. The book you follow gives them in their eyes a free pass to do as they wish in regards to others.
(September 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm)Rayaan Wrote:
(September 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm)Skipper Wrote: It does if the invented god is created by a perverted, violent, illiterate Shepard.
And that's why he couldn't have written the Quran. It was a revelation from God.
The word of god?
"And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked." (Sura 2:187-189).
Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip. This, because they have opposed God and his apostle: And whoso shall oppose God and his apostle. . .Verily, God will be severe in punishment." (Sura 8:12-13).
And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful." (Sura 9:5).
What a lovely god you have. And there are many more verses like it!
Islam is evil. Religion is evil. There is no evidence for god. Any thoughts on that?
September 28, 2010 at 4:40 am (This post was last modified: September 28, 2010 at 4:48 am by Rayaan.)
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: "And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked." (Sura 2:187-189).
Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip. This, because they have opposed God and his apostle: And whoso shall oppose God and his apostle. . .Verily, God will be severe in punishment." (Sura 8:12-13).
And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful." (Sura 9:5).
Those are some of the commonly misquoted verses. You have to know the historical context behind those verses in order to understand them accurately. Some people will just read those verses and think that the Quran is telling us to kill disbelievers anywhere we see them. But that is 100% wrong. The killing only applies when they attack you first and if you have to do it because of self-defense. Here's an answer from a scholar on these misquoted verses. Also, below are an explanation of the three verses that you quoted above (in respective order):
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: What a lovely god you have.
In a hadith (or sayings of the Prophet), he said: God Almighty said: "I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed" (Hadith Qudsi # 14).
So, if you think that God is a mean and merciless god, then He will be like that to you. If you think that God is a loving and merciful god, then He will be like that to you. And if you think that God doesn't exist, then He will be like that to you, and cause you to suffer in Hell without any forgiveness (since you think that He doesn't exist).
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: And there are many more verses like it!
I already explained the meaning of those verses.
Read the information in the links provided, and if you have anymore questions, then feel free to ask.
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: Islam is evil. Religion is evil. There is no evidence for god. Any thoughts on that?
(September 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm)Rayaan Wrote: However, there are also many who are pushing Islam to get more people into Heaven.
Oh for fucks sake.
Taking over streets doesn't get people to follow your religion, it gets people to despise it. If they really sincerely wanted to get converts they would be having discussions whilst doing everything possible to keep to the local laws and keep the citizens onside.
Instead they use their pushing power to get things their own way, in the process alienating people and they ultimately don't give a shit, because to them the dumb fucking book they have been brainwashed into believing matters more than being democratic.
If they don't want to be democratic them fuck them.
Quote: And to please the Creator. You can't blame them for anything, can you?
Them keeping the creator happy and converting people through reason and civil discourse are two completely fucking incompatible things.
September 28, 2010 at 6:10 am (This post was last modified: September 28, 2010 at 6:25 am by Skipper.)
(September 28, 2010 at 4:40 am)Rayaan Wrote:
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: "And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked." (Sura 2:187-189).
Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip. This, because they have opposed God and his apostle: And whoso shall oppose God and his apostle. . .Verily, God will be severe in punishment." (Sura 8:12-13).
And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful." (Sura 9:5).
Those are some of the commonly misquoted verses. You have to know the historical context behind those verses in order to understand them accurately. Some people will just read those verses and think that the Quran is telling us to kill disbelievers anywhere we see them. But that is 100% wrong. The killing only applies when they attack you first and if you have to do it because of self-defense. Here's an answer from a scholar on these misquoted verses. Also, below are an explanation of the three verses that you quoted above (in respective order):
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: What a lovely god you have.
In a hadith (or sayings of the Prophet), he said: God Almighty said: "I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed" (Hadith Qudsi # 14).
So, if you think that God is a mean and merciless god, then He will be like that to you. If you think that God is a loving and merciful god, then He will be like that to you. And if you think that God doesn't exist, then He will be like that to you, and cause you to suffer in Hell without any forgiveness (since you think that He doesn't exist).
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: And there are many more verses like it!
I already explained the meaning of those verses.
Read the information in the links provided, and if you have anymore questions, then feel free to ask.
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: Islam is evil. Religion is evil. There is no evidence for god. Any thoughts on that?
No thoughts except that I don't agree with you.
We'll we will have to agree to disagree then. I can't see how you think Islam is peaceful, it's not, no matter how much you say some verses are "taken out of context" countries who follow politicised Islam are some of the most unstable, unjust and unfair societies on earth. All I'd say is if this was the word of god surely he would have been a bit more careful with what he said as to not allow his words to so easily be manipulated by those who use your religion to kill innocent people.
Edit: How was Islam spread by the way? Was Muhammed successful when he was just preaching or did most of the spread of Islam in his life come when he was regularly using acts of violence against Kafirs?
Seriously, the terms "taken out of context" or "misquoted" are used far too often by religious people to try and justify the barbaric writings in their holy books. These books were written by people under archaic laws when oppression and barbarism were normal.
Fortunately, we have evolved as a society, so the majority of us no longer follows such outdated laws. Unfortunately, some people have become stuck in the dark ages, worshipping some asshole deity and killing in his name.
Religion is a plague and should be avoided as such.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: "And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked." (Sura 2:187-189).
Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger-tip. This, because they have opposed God and his apostle: And whoso shall oppose God and his apostle. . .Verily, God will be severe in punishment." (Sura 8:12-13).
And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is Gracious, Merciful." (Sura 9:5).
Those are some of the commonly misquoted verses. You have to know the historical context behind those verses in order to understand them accurately. Some people will just read those verses and think that the Quran is telling us to kill disbelievers anywhere we see them. But that is 100% wrong. The killing only applies when they attack you first and if you have to do it because of self-defense. Here's an answer from a scholar on these misquoted verses. Also, below are an explanation of the three verses that you quoted above (in respective order):
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: What a lovely god you have.
In a hadith (or sayings of the Prophet), he said: God Almighty said: "I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed" (Hadith Qudsi # 14).
So, if you think that God is a mean and merciless god, then He will be like that to you. If you think that God is a loving and merciful god, then He will be like that to you. And if you think that God doesn't exist, then He will be like that to you, and cause you to suffer in Hell without any forgiveness (since you think that He doesn't exist).
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: And there are many more verses like it!
I already explained the meaning of those verses.
Read the information in the links provided, and if you have anymore questions, then feel free to ask.
(September 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm)Skipper Wrote: Islam is evil. Religion is evil. There is no evidence for god. Any thoughts on that?
1). Would you consider Hezbolla and Hamas to be terrorrist organizations?
2). Do you agree with Irans president, and the "9-11 truthers" assertions, that our own American government destroyed the twin towers in NYC?
3). What do you think, is Al Qaeda a terrorrist organization?
4). Do you believe that Iran is an exporter and financier of terrorrism?
5). Do you accept the state of Israel?
6). In your opinion, in view of the outcry from angry citizens, should plans to build a mosque at ground zero be moved to another location?
"Inside every Liberal there's a Totalitarian screaming to get out"
Quote: JohnDG...
Quote:It was an awful mistake to characterize based upon religion. I should not judge any theist that way, I must remember what I said in order to change.
It is no worst than the christian threat. History shows christianity is a more violent religion than islam, and their bible is filled rules requiring death if they are broken. It seems you need to check your own back yard prior to throwing rocks.
It is no worst than the christian threat. History shows christianity is a more violent religion than islam, and their bible is filled rules requiring death if they are broken. It seems you need to check your own back yard prior to throwing rocks.
I'll agree that historically Christianity has it's fair share of blood on its hands, but it has adapted a lot, and is a much less of a threat as a religion. Islam has been responsible for many recent terrorist attacks the world over. It continues to threaten more. It's values and traditions do not fit with any of the western countries it's people go to. And it has entire countries and armies (some unstable and powerful) ruled under politicised version of the religion itself, something fortunately Christianity no longer has. Even if Christianity was still as a big of a threat, that dosen't mean Islam is any less of one.
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