(July 9, 2015 at 10:46 am)Holden Caulfield Wrote:

(July 9, 2015 at 10:30 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You are incorrect.

And to prove that I am not just making that up, here's this from a Catholic site:

"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/c...-doctrines

Of course they like to claim that.  Yet the bible has changed many many times over the centuries.  So while Catholic sites will just claim they are "reclarifying the words" and atheist sites will claim "doctrine has changed" the fact of the matter is that this one tome that is supposed to emcompass all of christian faith HAS changed, at times MASSIVELY, over the centuries.  Now where are all these male catholic leaders getting their info if not from this massively changed document?  Remember Jesus never even wrote a damned word of thing to start with.  2nd hand of 2nd hand of 2nd hand of 2nd hand etc etc is this doctrine.  And therefore it changes quite often.  I could give you a whole SLEW of links if want but you probably don't want to see those.  Unless of course you can provide evidence these "doctrines" are actually from a divine source not the malleable bible.  That I'd love to hear.

You misunderstand what Church Doctrine is. The bible is not considered infallible Church Doctrine, and the Church existed before the bible did. A doctrine is a formalized teaching of the Church which cannot be changed. Doctrines are a fundamental truth of the faith (for example, that Christ is divine is a doctrine, that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ is a doctrine). There are many other practices which the Church does, teaches and believes which are not formally defined as doctrines. These practices are subject to change.

(In my own words, but here's the source: http://www.catholicbasictraining.com/apo...xts/1e.htm )

(July 9, 2015 at 3:27 am)robvalue Wrote:

(July 8, 2015 at 5:13 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Gee, thanks.

No problem. That is a very cold and scientific assessment of course. I only refer to the decision to have children in the first place; once you have them, it becomes very much unselfish. At least it should do!

I do hundreds of selfish things every day, so it's hardly a judgement

It's one I disagree with. Raylene and I decided to have our son out of our love for each other and wanting to add the love of a child to our family. We didn't have the money for an attorney or the adoption process, which can be expensive and which has requirements that we might not have been able to meet. Additionally, we weren't sure we'd be accepted, because at that time I was managing a large adult video store ... not something that looks good on an adoption application.

We all do selfish things, but for me, becoming a father wasn't one of those things. I know you didn't mean ill about it, but it feels rather belittling to be told that.

(July 9, 2015 at 12:02 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(July 9, 2015 at 3:27 am)robvalue Wrote: No problem. That is a very cold and scientific assessment of course. I only refer to the decision to have children in the first place; once you have them, it becomes very much unselfish. At least it should do!

I do hundreds of selfish things every day, so it's hardly a judgement

It's one I disagree with.  Raylene and I decided to have our son out of our love for each other and wanting to add the love of a child to our family. We didn't have the money for an attorney or the adoption process, which can be expensive and which has requirements that we might not have been able to meet.  Additionally, we weren't sure we'd be accepted, because at that time I was managing a large adult video store ... not something that looks good on an adoption application.

We all do selfish things, but for me, becoming a father wasn't one of those things. I know you didn't mean ill about it, but it feels rather belittling to be told that.

This was beautiful.

Especially the part about the video store, amirite?

(July 9, 2015 at 12:20 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Especially the part about the video store, amirite?  

Haha, nope! Not that part.

But everything else, yes!

Alright Parkers, well I didn't mean to upset you, apologies.

It was only a minor point and a precursor to another point so I won't bother explaining all my reasoning. It wasn't meant to be personal towards anyone.

(July 9, 2015 at 12:31 pm)robvalue Wrote: Alright Parkers, well I didn't mean to upset you, apologies.

It was only a minor point and a precursor to another point so I won't bother explaining all my reasoning. It wasn't meant to be personal towards anyone.

I agree with Parkers Tan on this, but you are certainly free to have a difference of opinion. No apologies needed.

(July 9, 2015 at 12:31 pm)robvalue Wrote: Alright Parkers, well I didn't mean to upset you, apologies.

It was only a minor point and a precursor to another point so I won't bother explaining all my reasoning. It wasn't meant to be personal towards anyone.

I'm not upset, bud. I think I understand your reasoning -- this isn't something I've never heard before -- but I simply disagree with it, in part. No harm, no foul done, and no need to apologize for it.

OK cool. I'm sure you would understand my reasoning, even if you didn't agree with it. I have no doubt you were great parents anyhow All I meant by selfish was "for your own reasons". It's not meant to be an insult, and possibly not the best use of the word.

I was thinking that I could easily argue that I am selfish for not adopting anyone. That is true, although I'm currently not well enough anyway. However we are inundated with adopted animals, one of which would not respond well to new human occupants!

Well, yeah, we all do things for our own benefit. And while I didn't anticipate it, my son was the best thing that ever happened to me in my life. Even in his infancy, he taught me so much about the true nature of love and devotion. I thought I knew what that was, turns out I had no clue.