(July 11, 2015 at 10:10 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Before the OP can go any further, he needs to prove that he is not a spambot.
Please answer correctly:

A: ALL ON THEM
B: NONE OF THEM
C: DEPENDS WHICH COUNTRY YOU WERE BORN IN
D: BERRY WAFFLES

They are the same. They both have truth. They have both been manipulated by man.

But...but...allah talked to mo in the cave... when he wasn't busy fucking 9 year olds.  How can you doubt?

(July 12, 2015 at 5:03 am)robvalue Wrote: You are saying either these guys found the knowledge themselves, or else it was God. That is not justified. There could be an infinite number of other ways they got the knowledge. Maybe it was a magic speaking toad! Maybe it was aliens! Maybe it was sheer luck! Maybe some weird chemicals in the air gave them temporary amazing knowledge! How did you rule them all out? This amounts to an argument from incredulity, "I can't think of any other way that they got the information." Truth doesn't depend on your ability to imagine it. I don't need to actually know how they got the information to point out the problems in your reasoning. The best answer is, "I don't know how they got it." For more about this see, below:

---

http://youtu.be/U0C1bC9iDss

And on my website:

http://robvalue.wix.com/atheism#!argumen...lity/c1831

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Im not trying to be annoying, I'm trying to help you improve your critical thinking, if you are interested. Religion relies on very broken logic to succeed, which I am happy to point out at every turn.

As for Allah, worship is an obscene concept. It's degrading for me, and it's pointless for a god. The only reason to do it is to beg for better treatment after I'm dead. I'm not doing that, even if I did think there was anything after death. Also, any being that demands worship is not worthy of it.

Considering creating the uninverse would take literally no effort on the god's part, I think a simple "thank you" is sufficient. If God is good, he will be pleased with me living the best life I can and caring for others. If God is not good, I'm screwed no matter what I do.

Wow. You are way off. Worship of God is to keep you clear minded and on the right path. That's all.

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(July 12, 2015 at 5:50 am)ignoramus Wrote: You know, even cool dudes like "Prince" (the one who thought he was visited by an angel), couldn't get through to people like this and they are both born Islamic.
You know what, I'm sure the Islamic atheists are just as far removed from their theist equivalents as we are from our Christian fundy friends.

So at the end of the day, atheists, worldwide have a closer bond with each other, for one single reason. We do not believe "EXACTLY" the same thing!
The counter argument here (Cathy to answer) is "does a theist respect a believer from another religion, instinctively before she will respect an atheist from the same country? It's not like they can accuse an Islamic theist of being silly for believing in the wrong god! That's just pots & kettles.

Islam and Christianity are the same. They both refer to the one God. Christians get it twisted by thinking you can only find salvation through Jesus Christians, when in fact Jesus is the same God as well. Islamic believers know There is more than one way to salvation. And they know you must be more good than bad for salvation. Many Christians think you can do whatever you want because Jesus already paid for your sins. In reality it was a change from do or die by the direct hand of God, to do right or don't, and you will see for yourself upon death. There is one God. It is all encompassing. Feuding over a name for that God is were people fucked up.

(July 12, 2015 at 11:20 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: They are the same. They both have truth. They have both been manipulated by man.

What truth is that? How can they be the same and both true if they contradict each other?

(July 11, 2015 at 10:10 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Before the OP can go any further, he needs to prove that he is not a spambot.
Please answer correctly:

A: ALL ON THEM
B: NONE OF THEM
C: DEPENDS WHICH COUNTRY YOU WERE BORN IN
D: BERRY WAFFLES

My money's on D yo

(July 12, 2015 at 11:44 am)Neimenovic Wrote:

(July 12, 2015 at 11:20 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: They are the same. They both have truth. They have both been manipulated by man.

What truth is that? How can they be the same and both true if they contradict each other?

The truth is in the lessons they both teach. They do not contradict one another. Only man's interpretation makes it seem like they do. Really.

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An attempt at literal understanding is counterproductive. Most teachings are metaphorical. It even says that.

(July 12, 2015 at 11:45 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(July 12, 2015 at 11:44 am)Neimenovic Wrote: What truth is that? How can they be the same and both true if they contradict each other?

The truth is in the lessons they both teach. They do not contradict one another. Only man's interpretation makes it seem like they do. Really.

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An attempt at literal understanding is counterproductive. Most teachings are metaphorical. It even says that.

Not true. Take Quran 4:157 for example:
http://www.quranx.com/4.157
Quran 4:157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

The Bible contradicts that, obbviously. The Quran is a book that was created to negate the Bible. Muhammad created a religion which specifically denies the claims of another religion - Christianity. Seriously, go read the Quran.

(July 12, 2015 at 11:45 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(July 12, 2015 at 11:44 am)Neimenovic Wrote: What truth is that? How can they be the same and both true if they contradict each other?

The truth is in the lessons they both teach. They do not contradict one another. Only man's interpretation makes it seem like they do. Really.

---

An attempt at literal understanding is counterproductive. Most teachings are metaphorical. It even says that.

What are those lessons, specifically? Just give me an example or two.

How can 'Jesus is the son of god' and 'there is no son of god, he is only a messenger' not contradict each other? It isn't a matter of interpretation, that's what it fucking says.

What is the metaphorical meaning of the bible and the quran?

(July 12, 2015 at 5:03 am)robvalue Wrote: You are saying either these guys found the knowledge themselves, or else it was God. That is not justified. There could be an infinite number of other ways they got the knowledge. Maybe it was a magic speaking toad! Maybe it was aliens! Maybe it was sheer luck! Maybe some weird chemicals in the air gave them temporary amazing knowledge! How did you rule them all out? This amounts to an argument from incredulity, "I can't think of any other way that they got the information." Truth doesn't depend on your ability to imagine it. I don't need to actually know how they got the information to point out the problems in your reasoning. The best answer is, "I don't know how they got it." For more about this see, below:

---

http://youtu.be/U0C1bC9iDss

And on my website:

http://robvalue.wix.com/atheism#!argumen...lity/c1831

---

Im not trying to be annoying, I'm trying to help you improve your critical thinking, if you are interested. Religion relies on very broken logic to succeed, which I am happy to point out at every turn.

As for Allah, worship is an obscene concept. It's degrading for me, and it's pointless for a god. The only reason to do it is to beg for better treatment after I'm dead. I'm not doing that, even if I did think there was anything after death. Also, any being that demands worship is not worthy of it.

Considering creating the uninverse would take literally no effort on the god's part, I think a simple "thank you" is sufficient. If God is good, he will be pleased with me living the best life I can and caring for others. If God is not good, I'm screwed no matter what I do.

Ok thats a nice way to put things and it is very solid but it is not scientific it is more like philosophy nevertheless it is well established I must say so it miggt be if we forget that quran has mentioned Manny ethics and human behavior that any toad or dragon would never know about humans . And when mohammad talked to his people they refused to believe so it is not smarting gaz and we can go on and on . I know that you will say that is not the thing but the idea is why it is allah in particular I why not anything else that we can not imagine I will tell then that is allah . He has no image no one can imagine how he looks and I dont care if you call him allah or anything els the essential thing is you conclude his existence.

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(July 12, 2015 at 7:19 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 7:43 pm)huss88ein Wrote: There are many scintific facts in quran that would proof to any one that quran is the word of god and god exists one .
one of them is the embryology of humans who drove many doctors to believe that quran is indeed the word of god.
Ready to answer any questions

That would be why Muslim countries are the most technologically advanced in the world..........................................hang on a minute!

Well that is a weird way to approach things you measure the right and wrong in scriptures not people be logical in your approach many scientists were muslims and many were christians and many were atheists it doesn't have anything to do with religion

Dude. Why isn't the germ theory in the quran if it's so scientific? You'd think 7th century muslims could use that.