Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
All that Fatima proves is that people see weird things if they look at bright lights, and that a group of people seeing weird things can misinterpret them as a religious experience that just happens to align with the bullshit they already believe.
I see nothing miraculous or supernatural in the phenomenon -- just one more sad chapter in the history of human delusion.
(August 5, 2017 at 5:03 pm)pabsta Wrote: Just curious what atheists think of the miracle at Fatima in 1917? A quick summary of the facts:
3 young children claimed a "lady from heaven" appeared out of nowhere in a remote field in Portugal where they were watching their animals, and the lady gave them a Catholic related message to relay to the people where they lived. This lady also told the children to meet her in this same location on the 13th of the month for the next 5 months at the same time where she would tell them more. Of course no one believed the children when they returned home with this news, and it caused a massive stir in their town.
The 3 children returned the following month, and many curious people came along with them. The children again claimed to see and speak with this "lady from heaven", but other bystanders could not see her. Since no one would believe the children, the lady told the children she would perform a miracle on her last visit (Oct 13, 1917) so as "to make the people believe".
The children returned home, and publicly predicted a miracle would occur on Oct 13, 1917 at 12 noon at the exact location in the field. This was months beforehand.
Massive crowds began to gather in the field as the days and weeks passed and this angered the government. The children were put in prison and threatened with death if they did not say this was all a lie. Despite the children being only ages 7 through 10, and being taken from their parents and threatened with death, they still insisted their story was true. They were later released.
On Oct 13, 1917, people from all over Western Europe traveled to the field in Fatima, Portugal to see if they could catch a glimpse of this predicted miracle. The rain was so heavy that day that the ground became flooded and muddy, forcing people to abandon their carriages and travel the rest of the way on foot. Despite the bad weather, 70,000 people still showed up.
As high noon arrived, the pouring rain suddenly stopped and the sun appeared. Suddenly the sun began to move and spin in the sky, casting all colors of the rainbow on the people. At first people were amazed, but then suddenly the sun appeared to hurl toward them such that most people thought they were going to die and began pleading for their lives. Testimonials state that the heat was intense and most people thought it was the end of the world. The sun then returned to its normal place.
According to testimonials, the incident lasted a full 10 minutes so there was no confusion that it happened, and there were many testimonials from people miles away who saw it as well. Most significant of all is the fact that all unanimously agreed that though they were all soaked to the bone from the pouring rain, their clothes and the ground were instantly dried after the incident!
The incident was in the newspapers the following day (available online), and multiple movies have been made over the years regarding the miracle, the most recent being "The 13th Day". A book of testimonials was also published called, "Meet the Witnesses" of which I have a copy here on my bookshelf. I can post many of those testimonials separately.
As I see it, some of the most significant facts that make this incident undeniable is 1) The 3 children's prediction of the miracle months beforehand to the exact place and time - that place and time given to them by this "lady from heaven". And 2) the instantaneous drying of the clothing of all the bystanders within minutes - impossible when you consider how long it would take to dry drenched clothing in a standard clothes dryer.
I'm curious what atheists think of this incident. Thanks
Any of this scientifically documented? Because you know, I'm quite sure in 1917, there were scientists around that would have been more than willing to be present at one of these meetings. Five months is a long enough time to gather enough official people from around the world to scientifically test the validity of these "claims".
Asking what atheists think of this "incident" is funny because I think you already know what we think. Unless there is proof via the scientific method and there is validation of such proof - then it is all bullshit.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
And what's the big picture for believers if Fatima is somehow true?
It proves everything in the Bible, perhaps ??
Like it really is safe now to play with dangerous snakes and drink poison because this miracle is so convincing you have no ability to not believe now? Or even better, Fatima proves Jesus really and truly was crucified on Maundy Thursday and again on Good Friday, just like it says in the Bible ??
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
(August 5, 2017 at 7:33 pm)chimp3 Wrote: In the years surrounding the claims of Fatima 1,000,000 Armenian Christians were slaughtered. Their prayers for mercy went unanswered. How fitting of the Catholic god to instead focus on amusing a few by making the sun jiggly in the sky. What does your god do for an encore? Bend coins on the pediatric oncology unit?
And how many prayers for mercy were offered up just a few miles north of this event in 1917?
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
August 5, 2017 at 9:39 pm (This post was last modified: August 5, 2017 at 9:40 pm by Cyberman.)
How come nobody else noticed anything unusual? The sun nipping around the sky would be a bit dramatic, for at least the daylight side of the planet and a good portion of the twilight zone. And if it was anything more than a visual thing, the whole Solar System would have felt it. Stars aren't the kind of objects you can just kick about without breaking something, even if it's only the laws of physics. God or no god; you play in our universe, you play by the rules.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(August 5, 2017 at 9:39 pm)Cyberman Wrote: How come nobody else noticed anything unusual? The sun nipping around the sky would be a bit dramatic, for at least the daylight side of the planet and a good portion of the twilight zone. And if it was anything more than a visual thing, the whole Solar System would have felt it. Stars aren't the kind of objects you can just kick about without breaking something, even if it's only the laws of physics. God or no god; you play in our universe, you play by the rules.
I can hear it already, "but god is outside of time and space and has no rules, so there".
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
That's great. It means it can have no influence on our universe and can be safely ignored as irrelevant.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
