Jesus as Lord - why is this appealing to so many?

[Jehanne]

I'm disagreeing with the assertion that god doesn't grant us any autonomy.

This is something I've noticed here. Some will complain about God having given us free will because it allows us to do bad things. Meanwhile there is complaint about God being a tyrant who won't let us do what we want lol.

Doesn't at all explain natural evil.

[The Grand Nudger]

Hey, we're not the ones who are going to punish you for using that free will, now are we?  Some king. Real winner.

[Chad32]

I'm disagreeing with the assertion that god doesn't grant us any autonomy.

This is something I've noticed here. Some will complain about God having given us free will because it allows us to do bad things. Meanwhile there is complaint about God being a tyrant who won't let us do what we want lol.

The complaint is that he supposedly gave us free will, but punishes us for using that free will. What's the point of free will, if he doesn't respect differences in opinion?

[The Grand Nudger]

Psh, what kind of dictator worth his salt respects differences of opinion.  That's not really in the job title, after all. When a dictator wants your opinion...he'll give it to you. Ergo magic book.

Say it with me. be-nev-o-lent.

[John V]

I'm disagreeing with the assertion that god doesn't grant us any autonomy.

Well there's plenty of evidence from the bible that says I'm right. I mean, Adam and Eve get kicked out of Eden for disobeying him once. A guy gets stones to death for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week. Moses and Jonah say pick someone else when Yahweh wants them to do something, and he forces them anyway. Not to mention Moses gets banned from the promise land for striking a rock, instead of talking to it. Where's the autonomy here?

Your examples are like saying that there isn't autonomy in a democracy because people who break the law are put in jail. Well, yeah they are, but those of us who do the right things have freedoms.

Here's an example of us being given autonomy and authority in this life, and even greater position in the next. We judge the world, and judge the angels. 

1 Cor 6
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

[The Grand Nudger]

It just keeps getting deeper.  Now you're dreaming about a station in the next life beyond your station in this one?  Some place where you can be elevated above your betters? Just how lowly -is- your station in this life? What kind of worm does it take to hope for that?

[Catholic_Lady]

This is something I've noticed here. Some will complain about God having given us free will because it allows us to do bad things. Meanwhile there is complaint about God being a tyrant who won't let us do what we want lol.

The complaint is that he supposedly gave us free will, but punishes us for using that free will. What's the point of free will, if he doesn't respect differences in opinion?

No. Let's not be obtuse on purpose. He "punishes us" (if you wanna call it that) for using our free will to do bad things instead of good things. We have the choice to go either way.

But you knew that. So I'm not sure what your complaint is...

I mean, would you rather us not have free will at all? Or have free will with 0 negative consequences of using the free will to do bad things?

Or maybe you are just looking for things to bitch about no matter what it was like.

[The Grand Nudger]

His list of Bad Things™ is suspect. Obtuse isn't the right word, duplicitous comes to mind, however...and now we're getting bitchy because we can;t actually show our benevolent dictator to be any more benevolent than a five year old child? "God" doesn't punish people for using their free will, if they have it, to do bad things. It punishes people for doing things it doesn't like..regardless of whether or not they have free will.

This is why the story fails..even if there were such a thing as a god..-or- a "benevolent" dictator. In truth, there isn't..on either count. Just it's sycophants looking to make a transaction for status in the next life, who can do nothing other than cast shade on anyone who points out the shitty inanity of this entire fable.

[RoadRunner79]

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To the OP, I must admit, I don't get why some have such a hard time understanding this...

If you confidently believed that something was really good and pure and would bring the ultimate fulfillment, wouldn't you want to follow it?

The method of delivery is also important, IMO.  A feudal system or dictatorship being necessary makes me question if the result will be as good as is being claimed.

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I don't think that I understand what you mean by individual agency here.  How is this different between you and I?  How about someone under an earthly kingdom or dictatorship?  I am understanding "individual agency" as independent, and capable of choice.  However I can't make sense of this in regards to how a dictatorship eliminates this (at least no more than any other form of government).  I'm unsure if this part is related, but I don't believe that I have given up my free will either;  I do know people who I believe to be saved, and all of them have free will.   And I don't have any reason to believe that we will not have free will after sanctification.  I think you may be misunderstanding something here.

Someone living in an earthly dictatorship or kingdom typically has little to no individual agency.  I mean, you're aware North Korea exists, correct?  Saudi Arabia?

I'm still looking to what you mean by individual agency here?  To my understanding, even in N. Korea and Saudi Arabia, that the people still have individual agency.   I don't think that if we where to become a dictatorship this very minute, that all of the sudden we would become robots as a result.

Also, even if they are typical, I don't see why you would point to North Korea and Saudi Arabia as an example.   Are you saying that they are good?   If not, then even if atypical  you can't reference a good dictatorship/monarchy by hand waving to these countries.   Which still leaves us with the question on what is so bad.  I'm sorry, but as I recently alluded to, I don't think that your exasperation provides us with any detail or a case for what you are complaining about.

It's not an area I have studied greatly, but I'm sure that there have been good kings, who served their people well, and  who had a strong and good government.  Even if we are left without an example, then I'm sure that an abstract ruler could be thought of, which still fits the definition of dictator/monarch and not require such control.

It is also occurring to me, that there could be some equivocation going on here.  The term dictator may be used in regards to an oppressive rule.  I think that Zen Classin may have referred to the administration here as dictators in regards to his free speech.  Another meaning of the word is referring to the structure of a government, with a single ruler as the ultimate authority.  I have been referring to the latter, because of the reference to lords/ monarchies and there is only a slight difference (in how the gained power).  I think that it would be an error of equivocation, to take the meaning of one sense of the word, and impose it on the other.  Do you think that this is possibly where some of our conflict comes from?

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I'm disagreeing with the assertion that god doesn't grant us any autonomy.

This is something I've noticed here. Some will complain about God having given us free will because it allows us to do bad things. Meanwhile there is complaint about God being a tyrant who won't let us do what we want lol.

I think that some do both, sometimes right after the other!

[Jehanne]

Well there's plenty of evidence from the bible that says I'm right. I mean, Adam and Eve get kicked out of Eden for disobeying him once. A guy gets stones to death for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week. Moses and Jonah say pick someone else when Yahweh wants them to do something, and he forces them anyway. Not to mention Moses gets banned from the promise land for striking a rock, instead of talking to it. Where's the autonomy here?

Your examples are like saying that there isn't autonomy in a democracy because people who break the law are put in jail. Well, yeah they are, but those of us who do the right things have freedoms.

Here's an example of us being given autonomy and authority in this life, and even greater position in the next. We judge the world, and judge the angels. 

1 Cor 6
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Does someone who is driving a car who has an epileptic seizure that results in an accident exercising free will?