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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 8:37 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 8:41 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 17, 2018 at 11:40 pm)Banned Wrote: (March 17, 2018 at 11:23 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: A better example, do you believe that if sodium and chlorine come into contact they will lie inert until your gawd kick starts the chemical reaction? Fact, busted.
Chemicals were designed and made by God to have specific activities.
If you want to give an example of something which creates, organizes or assembles itself, do not use God's creation.
I have mentioned that already.
So...here's the trouble.
If you accept that these chemicals have "specific activities"...it doesn't matter much whether you think goddidit. If chemicals have "specific activities" -however- they ended up that way is all the explanation required for why things made of chemicals have "specific activities". If you want to add "godidit" to the list..fine, but you'll have to show a god. Until then..the rest of us will posit that the "specific activities" account for self assembly..for example..in life, and your acceptance of those "specific activites" is acknowledgement that the chemicals can self assemble.
Could have been pixies, or the loch ness monster, or maybe it;s just a brute fact...but no matter what that answer is, you've already acknowledged the point of contention and made "god" incidental in the process. One of any number of ways or reasons for some state of affairs x..but, once that state of affairs exists..there's no need of reference to the incidental anymore. Regardless of whether goddidit, it were brute fact, or if the loch ness monster sprinkled fairy dust all over organic chemistry...what it would do..is what we see it doing - because that's the nature of those chemicals... they have specific activities.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 9:22 am by GrandizerII.)
(March 17, 2018 at 11:10 pm)Banned Wrote: (March 17, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Grandizer Wrote: What's the point of positing God if things can work by themselves anyway? Learn to use some Occam's razor when you get the chance.
Life and automatic gearbox are two different things.
Do you have any evidence of things outside of God's creation, that just appear by organizing themselves into functionality and working?
No, but you want to use God's creation as an example of that?
Do you have evidence that this nature is God's creation?
No, but you want to assert God's creation as if it's an evident fact?
Quote:So apart from nature, including the functionality of the elements and chemicals, you don't have any evidence that things work by themselves.
And you don't have any evidence that a divine mover exists. So again, Occam's razor.
Quote:Things don't work by, or create themselves. That is a fact, not a theory.
Who says it's not a fact? You? And I never argued things can create themselves anyway. Also, a theory in the scientific sense is not the same as conjecture. Good scientific theories are highly credible.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:27 am
Would it be reasonable to assume most Christians should not feel they are 'guaranteed' a slot in heaven ??
The number of folks claiming to be Christian is large, the number of slots available is quite limited, so realistically, only the cream of the crop is getting in. The odds aren't good, they aren't good at all.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:30 am
(March 18, 2018 at 9:27 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Would it be reasonable to assume most Christians should not feel they are 'guaranteed' a slot in heaven ??
The number of folks claiming to be Christian is large, the number of slots available is quite limited, so realistically, only the cream of the crop is getting in. The odds aren't good, they aren't good at all.
Why is the space limited? A million angels can fit on the head of a pin, but there's limited space in "heaven"?
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:46 am
Scripture says 144,000 get in.
Seems pretty limited, no ?
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:47 am
More than 144k have already died. What if they've all already gotten in?
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:52 am
that's just it, most of them DIDN'T.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:54 am
Right, because heaven doesn't exist.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 9:58 am
and there are only 144,000 spaces . . . .
either way, sucky odds.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 18, 2018 at 10:34 am
One of the real problems is how theists could detect design when they think literally everything is designed.
One of these rocks is designed; can you tell which one. I am a trained archaeologist and struggled with this test.
How do you detect design. I do it by a comparison, and that comparison is to NATURE, not supernature.
The Super is the bit that has never been demonstrated.
![[Image: Which_Of_These_Rocks_Is_Designed.jpg]](https://image.ibb.co/kw6bqH/Which_Of_These_Rocks_Is_Designed.jpg)
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