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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 18, 2013 at 12:56 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 1:43 pm by Meylis Delano Lawrence.)
(March 18, 2013 at 11:57 am)Dawud Wrote: Morocco
You want more you bigot?
Are Muslims stupid anti-Semites Meylis? Are your family stupid anti Semites?
I am a Muslim and I am pro democracy - but you don't want to hear from me...
That's right, I want more. Morrocco doesn't count, since they would kill Dawkins in a week if he were there.
When it comes to my family; that's right, they are biologically related to me, but if their beliefs are immoral then I have every right to criticize them. I don't think that makes me criminal. You're right - they are stupid since they believe in Islam. I know what Islam stants for. It's full of violence and I won't defend anybody who believes in that.
You never came back to me on my challenge to defend MO the Pedophile Shit be Upon him. Are you scared?
Also, why did your family move to Britain? If Islam works, why not live in a "muslim country"? You're a hypocrite. You chose britain over wherever muslim place you came from and yet you say this:
Quote:Dawud Wrote:
Follow the white man's way - truth through falsification!
And who's pro democracy?
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 2:31 am
(March 18, 2013 at 11:57 am)Dawud Wrote: Morocco
You want more you bigot?
Are Muslims stupid anti-Semites Meylis? Are your family stupid anti Semites?
I am a Muslim and I am pro democracy - but you don't want to hear from me...
DERP d`Derp de de Derp
Are you actualy capable of giving a reply adressing the opposing arguments?
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 6:29 am
Naskh is abrogation - which is applied to the Quran. It is static: I.e. the Naskh will have been decided upon by the scholar or school in question and they'll stick to that opinion. It is broadly decided upon which verses have been abrogated. Hidden meanings cannot be taken from the Quran using Sunni hermeneutics - the original meaning cannot be abandoned unless it has been abrogated due to it being used only for a specific situation.
Islamic jurisprudence takes into consideration the factor of 'urf (local custom) hence why you can have different rulings for different locales and hence why it's not truly representative to say a Muslim in the West wants the same as a Muslim thousands of miles away in Saudi. Like our own legal system it has fixed principles which produce varied legal rulings over time.
The thing is: Islam is not Protestant Christianity. I mean Protestants may just be permitted to take an isolated verse and spout an authoritative opinion on the matter but that is not how Islam functions.
There is scripture and a continually adaptive tradition alongside that too and that's how decisions are made in Islam - using the full context. The single aim of Islam is to help us live in proper harmony with that which created us.
One reason why it's just silly to say "I read the Quran - I know Islam!" Islam has never ever been sola scriptura - just the Quran.
Local context and tradition ensured that Islam adapted and changed suiting lots of very different contexts over the centuries.
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 6:32 am
your country oppresses women
checkmate
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 6:37 am
I'm white and I don't think I need to apologize for that and I don't think that positing that a contribution of my people to philosophy (truth through falsification) should be followed.
My family are born and bred Scottish - so please apologize for your incorrect accusation of hypocrisy for living in Britain - but you won't cos you just have been and continue to be a foul mouthed and rude person.
Being atheist or agnostic doesn't mean you have to be offensive and rude to those who aren't convinced you are a son of logic and proof.
Should I be offensive and insulting to you?
You told me that your family are bigoted etc.
I suggest you try to avoid such behaviour - please!
So apology for that?
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 6:40 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 6:42 am by Something completely different.)
(March 19, 2013 at 6:29 am)Dawud Wrote: Naskh is abrogation - which is applied to the Quran. It is static: I.e. the Naskh will have been decided upon by the scholar or school in question and they'll stick to that opinion. It is broadly decided upon which verses have been abrogated. Hidden meanings cannot be taken from the Quran using Sunni hermeneutics - the original meaning cannot be abandoned unless it has been abrogated due to it being used only for a specific situation.
And how does this piece of useless knowlege fit into this thread?
Quote:Islamic jurisprudence takes into consideration the factor of 'urf (local custom) hence why you can have different rulings for different locales and hence why it's not truly representative to say a Muslim in the West wants the same as a Muslim thousands of miles away in Saudi. Like our own legal system it has fixed principles which produce varied legal rulings over time.
So for your Islamic "urf" bla bla, it would be alright for you to let south american Indians hunt heads? South African men rape lesbian women? Indian Hindus burn widows? Indian sociaty too keep up it`s brutal carst system?
Your urf is worthless and has no place in a modern world in which traditions are not seen as a valuable argument, but as a pathetic excuse to infringe peoples rights.
Quote:The thing is: Islam is not Protestant Christianity. I mean Protestants may just be permitted to take an isolated verse and spout an authoritative opinion on the matter but that is not how Islam functions.
I bet the iranian revolutionary guards and the saudi religious police will disagree with you and assert the opposite.
Quote:There is scripture and a continually adaptive tradition alongside that too and that's how decisions are made in Islam - using the full context. The single aim of Islam is to help us live in proper harmony with that which created us.
And it does so by doing such wonderfull and human things like slavery, infringing womens rights and discriminating non muslims.
ohh how wonderfull
Quote:One reason why it's just silly to say "I read the Quran - I know Islam!" Islam has never ever been sola scriptura - just the Quran.
But it is the most importent one and the one which your people follow. (although some, to be fair, ignore stuff like the slavery part)
Quote:Local context and tradition ensured that Islam adapted and changed suiting lots of very different contexts over the centuries.
nope. modernety changed what muslims can do and can no longer do.
like keeping slaves.
(March 19, 2013 at 6:37 am)Dawud Wrote: I'm white and I don't think I need to apologize for that and I don't think that positing that a contribution of my people to philosophy (truth through falsification) should be followed.
My family are born and bred Scottish - so please apologize for your incorrect accusation of hypocrisy for living in Britain - but you won't cos you just have been and continue to be a foul mouthed and rude person.
Being atheist or agnostic doesn't mean you have to be offensive and rude to those who aren't convinced you are a son of logic and proof.
Should I be offensive and insulting to you?
You told me that your family are bigoted etc.
I suggest you try to avoid such behaviour - please!
So apology for that?
Islamic countries by a mayority opress women.
Still checkmate.
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 2:13 pm by Meylis Delano Lawrence.)
(March 19, 2013 at 6:37 am)Dawud Wrote: I'm white and I don't think I need to apologize for that ...
You're a liar, you are not white. Here is your post from this thread ( https://atheistforums.org/thread-17620.html):
Quote:Dawud Wrote:
Even if Islam was false consciousness(which it is not) the image of Muslims versus Jews throughout history just doesn't stand up: we are different from Christians - even if we look scary and brown we do not have a history of genocide against Jews!
Even if you are white, saying "follow the white man, truth through falcification" is still racist. You're stereotyping the whole community for the actions of some nutheads. Nutheads that are present in every community. You're a racist, shame on you!
In fact, Islam is very racisist religion. When I asked you this:
Quote:Meylis wrote:
Can you name one muslim country where people like Richard Dawkins can easily express their views without being killed?
You gave me a false answer. When I criticised it, you never followed up on that. That is so cheap.
Quote:My family are born and bred Scottish - so please apologize for your incorrect accusation of hypocrisy for living in Britain ...
My point is if Islam worked, you would prefer to live in Islamic country such as Saud Arabia or Pakistan. But no, muslims still imigrate in large numbers to more liberal countries and then complain how bad the country is and how Islam works. There are muslims that are born in Britain and yet majority of them still prefer Britain. Most never move to islamic countries.
In response to your post where you say that you don't have a history of genocide against jews. I gave you this answer:
Quote:Meylis wrote:
Is that why most jewish people had to escape to Europe. Even today, most jewish people live outside Israel. What happened to jewish tribes in Saud Arabia, for instance. They left because they were discriminated, assaulted, raped, demonized and killed. Do you own research!
You never followed up on that either. You just say things and run away. Again that's very cheap.
Also, you never replied to me whether you accept my challenge on MO the Pedophile Shit be upon him. Are you not confident about your faith? If not, why do you ignore it?
Islamic countries have much lower quality of life even if they got the oil and gas.
Checkmate
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 19, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Wouldn't matter if David was or wasn't white, with regards to an accusation or implication of racism (even against whites). That's not really how that chestnut works.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 20, 2013 at 6:05 am
Ask him why Muhammed and many of the "scholars" in Saudi Arabia believe the sun orbits the earth.
http://www.wilayat.net/index.php/en/isla...-the-earth
http://qawaariyyah.wordpress.com/2012/01...uthaymeen/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j9Ja6bZDh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWLA-MZBhyE
I've actually had "moderate Muslims" reject "Western Science" (as opposed to "Quranic Science") as a tool of the devil after being confronted with this.
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RE: How do you debated a Muslim?
March 20, 2013 at 9:39 am
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2013 at 9:49 am by Dawud.)
You wish
How many Muslims do you know that think the sun orbits the earth?
Fantastic!
I'm not racist against non whites (!?) I just think that white people have something to offer intellectually that is worth following - i.e. discovering truth through falsification... Sue me: but you're just clutching at silly ad homenim straws and totally mistaken to call this racist
Mist we be negative about whites to not be racist? Or never positive?
U not gonna apologise for that offensive mistake too Meylis?
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