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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:03 am
(January 6, 2015 at 12:08 am)psychoslice Wrote: I think its negative for atheist to believe all religion is negative, and unintelligent also.
UGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
Was there anything positive when most of the planet believed the earth was flat?
It is understandable when a kid has a imaginary friend as a play date. It is sad and absurd when humans have them as adults. It was understandable when humans did not know any better. But we have much better tools today to gain knowledge about the world and universe around us.
Negative is when you stop thinking and default to the past out of a false sense of comfort. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.
Living in the past is negative to me.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:11 am
Is it a false sense of comfort?
The basis may be false, but the sense is real!
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:17 am
To me it also seems like a regression into a child like state, where you give you up your own morals and careful criticism in favour of an authority figure who just does all your thinking for you. Maybe that is exactly what some people want. It's also the ultimate way to avoid responsibility for your actions, at least in your own eyes, because you're forgiven and all that crap.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:24 am
Man, regressing to a childlike state is the best bit about growing up 
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:37 am
Ahah! Well yes, I think keeping a sense of the childlike sense of fun is very important, or else you become a zombie.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:44 am
(January 6, 2015 at 7:17 am)robvalue Wrote: To me it also seems like a regression into a child like state, where you give you up your own morals and careful criticism in favour of an authority figure who just does all your thinking for you. But rob, remember that religious people's morals grow side-by-side with with the authority figure. They end up agreeing.
That's why it's so common for them to claim that, without religion, there would be nothing preventing them from being criminals.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:48 am
Yeah, that is a very odd claim they make, that if you don't believe in god you will behave like a savage. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the religious guy's ability to ignore evidence that is right under their nose.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 7:53 am
(January 6, 2015 at 7:48 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah, that is a very odd claim they make, that if you don't believe in god you will behave like a savage. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the religious guy's ability to ignore evidence that is right under their nose.
Funny you would say that...
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 8:30 am
(January 6, 2015 at 7:11 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Is it a false sense of comfort?
The basis may be false, but the sense is real!
UGGGGGGGGG.
Yea and? It made the Egyptians "feel good" to believe a god controlled the sun.
It also makes Christians "feel good" to deny gays rights and control the bodies of women.
You can staple your nuts to the wall too, doesn't mean you should.
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RE: Can religion be positive
January 6, 2015 at 8:42 am
(January 5, 2015 at 12:43 pm)robvalue Wrote: It's hardly selfless when you are trying to earn your way into paradise.
I say give credit where it's due. And blame where it's due, too.
Well there's no immediate gain. We're talking universal benefit.
(January 5, 2015 at 7:38 pm)whateverist Wrote: (January 5, 2015 at 12:41 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Why can't people do good things without having to take the credit themselves? Sounds like that's what you are suggesting. Religion, in that case, is promoting selfless acts. Something I think is far better than selfish acts.
That seems to make sense but then think of all the theists we get through here who think that without god a person would have no reason not to rape and steal to their heart's content. Haven't they taken it a step too far if they think giving credit to god is the only way to achieve good ends? Or don't people who give credit to god think they deserve any credit at all for good acts?
Also, isn't it at all laudable to do really good things for yourself? Like making the effort to get a good education or following through with medical treatments or taking time to meditate or getting exercise. In other words, is it important to leave yourself entirely out of your concerns or is it more a question of keeping self concern proportional?
Those are religious people making a point. If all humans have a God given moral sense as I'm pretty sure the bible states then that's incorrect.
God being the ultimate and absolute moral standard then sure, nothing trumps that.
It is a Christian idea that nothing apart from God is worthwhile. That more speaks to the ultimate motive being pure. Anything less has to have a less pure motive.
Not giving yourself credit when deserved would be masochistic, and we certainly see that with some fanatical practices outlined here on AF. Self-flagellation, for example, is just wrong and warped.
I think it's encumbant upon all of us to take care of ourselves, everyone else, and everything. The negative of that are selfish, greedy actions that serve ourselves to the detriment of others.
I think we all want the same thing if we were honest.
(January 5, 2015 at 7:42 pm)abaris Wrote: (January 5, 2015 at 12:41 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Why can't people do good things without having to take the credit themselves? Sounds like that's what you are suggesting. Religion, in that case, is promoting selfless acts. Something I think is far better than selfish acts.
Saturday an old woman dropped her shopping at the cashier. For me it was a natural thing to pick up her stuff and put it back into her bag. No religion needed. It's just the decent thing to do and I would have felt bad if I hadn't done it.
Sometimes religion might stop you doing the right thing.
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