I need major help with my Christian Family

[FatAndFaithless]

Wow, GC with the vinegar today. Who the hell pissed on his crucifix.

[TubbyTubby]

I'm old enough to be your parents parent, I've seen things even they have not lived long enough to see and understand, so believe me when I say this, these people here couldn't care less if you wind up in hell, all they are looking for is a victory, their hatred for God blinds them.
GC

Ok, give me some examples of things you've seen that the parents have not seen or are able to understand.

[Pyrrho]

So, you think children of Muslim parents are correct to believe in Islam, since their parents took care of them? That children of Hindus are correct to believe in Hinduism, since their parents took care of them? That children of Buddhists are correct to believe in Buddhism, since their parents took care of them?

Have you no regard at all for people believing the truth? Following your advice, most people in the world would believe falsehoods. This is because, no matter what one believes about religion, most other people in the world disagree. If everyone simply (mindlessly, really) believes whatever fool thing their parents believe, most people will be wrong.

I never said anything like what you are suggesting, I actually left the decision to the boy, unlike others here. I was pointing out that he needed to work it out with the ones who have always been there for him. On the other hand you only care he accepts atheism at any cost, his well being is not even a consideration for you. I was only trying to help him to see the ones who have been with him for the 14 years of his life, love him, again unlike you.

GC

It seems that the people who have been openly disparaging your honesty have been quite correct. To avoid any accusations of taking things out of context, here is what you stated, in toto:

Well if that is true, then I can burn in hell, honestly, according to the bible, God is a serial killer and kind of a douche, I realise this now

I'm positive the God of the Bible exists, no doubts. See you've asked these people to make decisions for you, in other words you have adopted them as parents, you really believe that is a good thing. Have they loved you these 14 years, feed you, gave you a home and all parents do for their child, have they? Does what a parent do for their child seem they would steer one in the wrong direction? Don't you believe your parents have the right to handle this, they gave you life, they've worried over you daily, their the ones that's guided you in many ways for 14 years. Tell me which one of these on this site have changed your diapers, watched over you when you were sick, fix meals for you every day and all the other caring things parents do for their children. I'm old enough to be your parents parent, I've seen things even they have not lived long enough to see and understand, so believe me when I say this, these people here couldn't care less if you wind up in hell, all they are looking for is a victory, their hatred for God blinds them. If you do not believe me read the responses that came my way from them, judge for yourself. You need to think about the love your parents and you have for each other and you might want to brows through this forum and see the relationship some of these gave up with their families, just to be an atheist. Seems to me they chose atheism over family and you know what they cry about Jesus saying He was more important than family, if they only knew what He meant. I have no other advise to give you and the decisions your's and no one else's.
Wishing you a good future with your family.

GC

The only "reasoning" you give for him to believe what his parents believe is that they raised him and took care of him. What is the purpose of things like:

• "Does what a parent do for their child seem they would steer one in the wrong direction?"

Is that not to tell him he should believe what his parents tell him? If not, why do you have such things in your post? What is their function and purpose? Are you going to pretend that this was not an effort to get him to agree with his parents? Are you going to pretend that this was just empty verbiage, of no significance?

Following that reasoning, if his parents were Muslim, he should be a Muslim, etc. If you were honest, you would recognize this fact.


Also, I never told him to become an atheist, which should be clear to you if you read my post, in which I stated:

... I say, believe in accordance with the evidence. ...

Perhaps, though, you believe that the evidence is in favor of atheism? That is the only way that that could be said to encourage him to be an atheist.


It is also worth mentioning that he came here as an atheist, not as a believer. So we cannot properly accept credit for getting him to stop believing superstitious nonsense. I would happily accept credit for it if it were true that I got him to stop believing nonsense, but as it isn't true, I will not. Not everyone is as disingenuous as you are.


Also, he does not need to work it out with his parents. His views are his, not his parents. It is very likely that he and they will never agree on matters of religion. He could, if he wished, hide his views from his parents. Given what monsters some parents are, that can be the wisest course, though he must decide how to interact with his parents using his best judgement, as I do not know them and do not know what approach would give the best results. But I can say, their love for him is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether there is a god or not. So it has no place regarding the issue of what is reasonable to believe.

[Strider]

No your ignorance is what's funny.

GC

Explain. I made a valid point. If a person identifies as an atheist and that person's family cuts ties, the family is the one responsible for ending the relationship.

That fact should be clear even to you, but perhaps I give more credit than is due.

[TubbyTubby]

You like AlexK have taken parts of what I've said and put together a quote I did not make, you both are totally dishonest liars who care nothing for this child. You both are lower than any human being I've met here yet.
GC

I object strongly to that statement. I just hit the most recent quote. How do you reach a conclusion that AlexK and I are 'totally dishonest and care nothing for this child' from that?

And to then conclude that we are lower than any humans you have ever met tells me everything I need to know about you. You don't know me at all, and that is something I am very thankful for.

[emilynghiem]

I need help

I have been brought up in religion since I was born, and im now 14 years of age, I have left religion because I started thinking about God, and if, he did really love us then why did he flood us, and if he didnt care about flooding us, why didnt he kill Adam And Eve?

Anyway so one thing led to another but here is where I need help, I tell my family im agnostic in ways (Because I dont wanna tell them im athies) and now, more than ever, they're trying to force me to attend christian conventions and go to church and I just want to scream no, but I really don't want to upset my parents, it would make me feel guilty

What should I do? Should I tell them im athiest, because I feel like they will force it upon me more if I do, or should I keep quiet! Please! Respond!

Dear CoolfunkDJ
There are two different issues going on here
1. One is accepting the fact that even if you are "secular gentile" or nontheist under natural laws, those are still included in the Bible and Jesus/Spirit of Justice still fulfills that path, too. the spiritual believers under scripture focus on Jesus as Salvation by Grace. the secular humanists under natural laws focus on Justice which is another name for Jesus but in secular nontheistic terms. All things can be translated into secular terms, but it takes patience and forgiveness which is the second issue going on here.
2. The other factor is forgiving differences, regardless if you are theistic or nontheistic, Christian or nonChristian. The forgiveness factor is necessary regardless what faith we share or don't share. there is nothing wrong with questioning or not relating at all to the symbols in the Bible, and that doesn't determine if you are this or that by whether you accept it all. What matters is the LANGUAGE you feel most comfortable speaking in. If you are nontheistic there is no problem with that, but it may take translating back and forth from religious symbolism that is like foreign language. if you can FORGIVE the fact that you and your family "speak different languages" it will be less stressful when trying to explain back and forth, and not feel judged guilt or fear about this. It is perfectly natural, like if you married into a mixed family that had English/Spanish bilingual differences, and some people have accents or don't get the other language at all. This happens.

3. To summarize the Bible where you can see the overall meaning, the point is that humanity is maturing and moving from the past stages of living by the letter of the law which gets corrupted by greed ("Retributive Justice" and OT ways that is full of death destruction genocide and all the effects of judgment and punishment) and moving toward mature stages of social and spiritual/political development by "Restorative Justice" and NT that is about RESTORING healthy relations by peace justice and truth, especially by mutual forgiveness and corrections instead of rejection and punishment as before.

Most people are not ready for this because we can't forgive the authoritarian old ways where people are still fighting politically for control of church and state, and control of personal relations between men and women, or bosses and workers, or rich and poor.

We'd have to be as gracious as God to forgive all the wrongs in the world in order to work together to correct them.

So that is what the NT is about, letting go of man's ways that are selfish, and seeking Higher Justice and Greater Good for all people which is noble.

So that takes such "divine forgiveness" that this is what people turn to Jesus for, to receive that higher forgiveness and grace we cannot find in ourselves when we are burdened by all these problems we are under.

If you can understand that your family believes in this wonderful Justice coming to save everyone, then that is like how even secular humanists seek Justice and Peace universally for all people. The biggest step is forgiveness, and where people struggle to forgive differences, that's where your family 'fears' you aren't on the same page with them.

The more you can forgive, and let your natural love and compassion for each other overcome that 'fear' then you will see you are able to work toward the same goals with the same faith in truth justice and peace,
even though you prefer SECULAR terms for the same concepts. the same spirit of Justice with Mercy and 'divine grace' fulfills the laws of justice, whether it is the natural laws of the secular society under the state and under science or it is the spiritual laws of the believers in the church.

the same people make up the body of the church
as the people make up the body of government, so the same spirit of truth and justice fulfills the goals and laws under both authorities.

[KevinM1]

What do you mean by 'these people'? And, protip: none of us believe hell exists, so that doesn't really enter anyone's thought process when doling out advice.

Really, GC, you seem angry. I guess a life spent living according to the whims of a violent and capricious fictional character will do that to a person.

[JesusHChrist]

GC is clearly suffering from an excess of body thetans, no doubt. No doubt in my mind at all!

I'll bet his e-meter readings are off the charts!

Please GC, for your own sake, *please* get an audit done at your nearest Church of Scientology office.

They'll fix you right up. And then, after your body thetan problem is under control, they will help you read minds and levitate.

[TubbyTubby]

For some reason, I am imagining GCs bedtime prayer tonight "lord, smite that evil, lowest of the lowest, human pig called TubbyTubby with all your almighty powers. He is the most dishonest piece of heathen trash I have ever met on that internet forum full of unworthy unbelievers"

[emilynghiem]

Warning. I'm just fucking with you.

Perhaps you could do a Steve Martin like overboard enthusiasm for god and all things xtian. Babble in tongues. Yell out "thank you Jesus" in church. Spend hours chanting prayers and pouring over the bible at home. Get in touch with your inner lunatic. Maybe they'll try to get you to back off, do a little less church?

Reminds me of a grad student at my college who invited me to church because she was 'worried for my salvation.' As we were singing and clapping along to the Baptist hymnals, she turned to me and whispered if I knew what the words meant. I said yes, I was used to singing in a UU choir where all the symbols were translated into secular terms. So Lord of All meant Source of All or LAW for all. And Jesus meant JUSTICE. etc etc.

So we kept singing and clapping, then she suddenly turned to me, wide eyed with joy; "You're right! Jesus does mean Justice!"

Like duh. What do you think it means for everyone to rejoice that Jesus is going to return. It means we will finally see Justice for all the wrongs the whole world has ever asked to be righted.

It makes ME wonder if Christians even know what they are saying! I think the ones who do, become very humbled and are too busy caring for the oppressed to go around preaching on high horses about it.

(This also worked to stop someone from harassing a gay atheist heading a protest on National Prayer Day outside city hall. The person keep taunting him: You need Jesus! And the head of the group kept turning and rebutting: No I don't. back and forth: You need Jesus! No I don't, etc. annoying the heck out of everyone within earshot. Finally I said to him: Do you believe in Justice. And without hesitation of course he said Yes. So I said that's the same thing. We all want Justice. And they shut up.)