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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 5:43 pm
(February 10, 2015 at 11:11 am)Nope Wrote: (February 9, 2015 at 5:04 pm)Godschild Wrote:
Asking someone for advice or venting to them is not the same thing as seeing them as a parental figure. I see no evidence that he is looking at us as parents anyway. Teenagers and young adults are allowed to disagree with their parents.
Sure they are, I did all the time, when I matured I found out I wasted a lot of time trying to counter all they had to say, I went back and told them they were correct on most things.
GC Wrote:Don't you believe your parents have the right to handle this, they gave you life, they've worried over you daily, their the ones that's guided you in many ways for 14 years.
Quote:No, his parents don't have the right to decide whether he will believe in god or not.
I never said that nor did I allude to it, all I was doing was to try and let him know working it out with his family would be best for him and them.
Quote: Would you say the same thing about atheist parents if their child decided to join your faith? Would you tell that child that the fact that his parents have done their job means that he can't ever question their views?
Again I never said anything close to what you are suggesting. If I had a child in my former youth group that decided to become a Christian against his families wishes I would have encouraged him to work it out with them. You all need to understand I had to work with things like this and it's tougher than giving a kid ideas about how to handle his family when you know only his side. It's not being fair to him or them.
GC Wrote:Tell me which one of these on this site have changed your diapers, watched over you when you were sick, fix meals for you every day and all the other caring things parents do for their children.
Quote:Do guilt trips normally work for you? My eldest son is a Christian. Maybe I should knock on his door and say, Listen young man, I did all these wonderful things for you so stop being a theist. Except I wouldn't do that because the choice is his not mine and I didn't do the things that mothers do so that his mind would always be a slave to mine.
Good, I'm glad you have allowed him to live his life as he desires, I would bet you all had plenty of discussions and worked things out.
I never suggested that he believe as his parents do, I was suggesting he take this to his parents when he's ready and work it out with them. You have rad things into what I've said, you've become defensive for someone you do not even know, you have no idea if what this kid is saying is true, now do you.
Now, explain how my reminding him of the truth of his life is a guilt trip, those things are part of a family life and it seems to me he has forgotten that his family has always been there for him. I could have suggested plenty of things to help in there situation, but I'm an outsider with no invitation to get involved. I was trying not to by having him consider that his family has rights in his life till he becomes an adult. They love him, just as you love your son.
GC Wrote:
Quote:I do not hate a nonexistent entity anymore than I hate Voldemort.
Just because you've put God out of your life doesn't mean He doesn't exist, you can't prove that to me or yourself.
I understand what you are saying, so I'll say this, you hate the idea of the God of creation, which basically is the same thing as hating God.
GC Wrote:If you do not believe me read the responses that came my way from them, judge for yourself.
Quote:Sure, read my responses. I am normally polite but I assume that any Christian that voluntarily enters an atheist forum is here either because they love more heated debate or they want to convert the heathens.
I came here for neither, I'm here to learn and learn I have, so I'm accomplishing what I came here for. If what I've ever said here helps someone to make a decision for Christ that's great, but it's not something I need to know. You are normally polite and I appreciate the kindness, that's why we have civil conversations most of the time.
GC Wrote:
Quote:Wow.
Wow, really! I've had discussions with people here that gave up their families for their atheism, sounds and sounded then like a bad deal, sure families have problems, mostly because they do not use the love they have at their disposal, what I mean by disposal is to give that love to other family members. My family have our problems, but one thing you can bet on, we will never let those things separate us because we love each other, ours is a love described in scripture. A love that will put self behind and others first to preserve the family and the love.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 5:44 pm
GC, you're drunk. Go home.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 5:44 pm
GC: Continuing the slimy line of grossly dishonest and morally stilted theists.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 5:47 pm
Give up families for atheism...
GC must have me on block. Only so many times I can repeat myself.
If Christianity is meant to produce kind, moral people, it's not working here. You clearly have a lot of issues which you are projecting all over atheists. That you pick what you consider vulnerable ones to concentrate on is really sickening.
I'm really hoping at this point you are an under cover atheist.
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I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 5:48 pm
(February 10, 2015 at 4:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: you chose to be an atheist, period.
GC
This statement is really retarded. People don't choose to not believe in something. The fact is that I and my fellow Atheists can't force ourselves to believe in nonsense such as Leprechauns, Fairies, or your nonexistent god.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm by robvalue.)
If GC really thinks atheism is a choice, then that must mean Christianity is a choice too. So he's saying people choose to buy into it, rather than being convinced that it's actually real. In other words, they don't believe it at all but go along with it.
Can't have it both ways.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 6:49 pm
(February 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm)robvalue Wrote: If GC really thinks atheism is a choice, then that must mean Christianity is a choice too. So he's saying people choose to buy into it, rather than being convinced that it's actually real. In other words, they don't believe it at all but go along with it.
Can't have it both ways.
Good points.
What I find is the issue is not Christian vs. nonchristian
or theist vs. nontheist
It is Forgiveness vs. Unforgiveness.
As long as people accept each other and forgive differences,
we can work things out in the same spirit of truth and love
whether we are theist nontheist, Christian nonchristian, etc.
If people CANNOT forgive differences, even two Christians will argue and not resolve it, two theists, two atheists, etc.
The first step is to forgive and let go of fear of changing each other.
And then whatever is needed to resolve conflicts follows naturally.
Where Christianity helps with forgiveness, then that is central and true.
But where Christians can't even forgive, that is self-defeating and false.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 10, 2015 at 6:56 pm
(February 10, 2015 at 6:49 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: (February 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm)robvalue Wrote: If GC really thinks atheism is a choice, then that must mean Christianity is a choice too. So he's saying people choose to buy into it, rather than being convinced that it's actually real. In other words, they don't believe it at all but go along with it.
Can't have it both ways.
Good points.
What I find is the issue is not Christian vs. nonchristian
or theist vs. nontheist
It is Forgiveness vs. Unforgiveness.
As long as people accept each other and forgive differences,
we can work things out in the same spirit of truth and love
whether we are theist nontheist, Christian nonchristian, etc.
If people CANNOT forgive differences, even two Christians will argue and not resolve it, two theists, two atheists, etc.
The first step is to forgive and let go of fear of changing each other.
And then whatever is needed to resolve conflicts follows naturally.
Where Christianity helps with forgiveness, then that is central and true.
But where Christians can't even forgive, that is self-defeating and false.
Its not even..... when it comes down too it and this is the reality of it all.
Atheist/Secular humanist homes have better families and moral values than any theistic household would ever have ever period. The fact is if you look at the data secular/atheist families tend to be a happier family have stronger family ties and even jail statistics there is hardly atheists in jails. What it boils down to is and the majority doesn't want to accept is that atheists are great people and good-natured people who help because they are not doing it for x y z god they are doing it for helping a fellow human being. And the sad fact is i live that life i get told oh your nice guy its sad that well since you are doing this charity work not for god but of your own free will its selfish and you are going to burn in hell. Its not my choice i don't believe in god i just knew i had the information i was skeptical about the bible and events hell i mean i don't mind church but the thing is i feel more better as an atheist than i was a theist because its irrational to fear hell, hell was never suppose to exist in the bible the only reasons why it was added in the first place was to get back people who were leaving the faith.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 11, 2015 at 3:10 am
I can safely say it's the christians doing most of the non-accepting of atheists, rather than the other way round. I have no problem accepting christians, as long as they aren't being arse holes. I'm sure most atheists feel the same.
Having a book that you believe is the word of God saying that everyone who doesn't agree with you deserves to be divinely punished does not help the situation.
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RE: I need major help with my Christian Family
February 11, 2015 at 3:16 am
(February 10, 2015 at 6:56 pm)dyresand Wrote: Its not even..... when it comes down too it and this is the reality of it all.
Atheist/Secular humanist homes have better families and moral values than any theistic household would ever have ever period. The fact is if you look at the data secular/atheist families tend to be a happier family have stronger family ties and even jail statistics there is hardly atheists in jails. What it boils down to is and the majority doesn't want to accept is that atheists are great people and good-natured people who help because they are not doing it for x y z god they are doing it for helping a fellow human being. And the sad fact is i live that life i get told oh your nice guy its sad that well since you are doing this charity work not for god but of your own free will its selfish and you are going to burn in hell. Its not my choice i don't believe in god i just knew i had the information i was skeptical about the bible and events hell i mean i don't mind church but the thing is i feel more better as an atheist than i was a theist because its irrational to fear hell, hell was never suppose to exist in the bible the only reasons why it was added in the first place was to get back people who were leaving the faith.
Yes and no. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
The secular people I know are more objective, many are better at business and managing practical things while some of my Christian friends who live in the spiritual plane can lose sense of grounding and especially finances when they think "everything comes from God." They forget that SOMEONE has to do WORK to produce these "gifts from God."
On the other hand, the people who do Christian spiritual healing are able to heal even extreme cases of cancer, schizophrenia, and other ills that medicine cannot do alone. I have never seen atheists or Buddhist able to cure severe cases of demonic sickness, that only the Christian deliverance prayers seem to be able to handle and get rid of. The other prayers/meditations work the same on the personal level and register the same in the brain as studies show; but with the deeper spiritual sickness that causes mental and criminal illness and addictions,
the Christians definitely have an advantage there that I haven't seen other systems able to match. Those prayers are more concentrated and centralized on a level where those demonic and occult energies operate and can overpower the human mind and will where the other levels of prayer operate.
I would like to see scientific research in this area to prove the difference between dark energies of occult/sorcery/magic and the light energies of positive prayers, plus the concentrated prayers of the people who do exorcisms and deliverance that other prayers can't do.
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