If I were an Atheist

[Cyberman]

If I were an atheist, I wouldn't care what the average theist does or really think too much about them. 

And outside of this place, I for one generally don't.

[Polaris]

If I were an atheist, I wouldn't care what the average theist does or really think too much about them. 

I only care when theists vote for things that are objectively bad, like pro-war, anti-science representatives, or trying to force schools to teach creationism as science.

Pro-war is a money issue only. If there was no money in it, you would see support instantly dwindle.

[KevinM1]

I only care when theists vote for things that are objectively bad, like pro-war, anti-science representatives, or trying to force schools to teach creationism as science.

Pro-war is a money issue only. If there was no money in it, you would see support instantly dwindle.

Tell that to Netanyahu and all the people here itching to invade Iran for ideological reasons.

[Polaris]

Pro-war is a money issue only. If there was no money in it, you would see support instantly dwindle.

Tell that to Netanyahu and all the people here itching to invade Iran for ideological reasons.

And you really believe their lies?

[KevinM1]

Tell that to Netanyahu and all the people here itching to invade Iran for ideological reasons.

And you really believe their lies?

Politicians?  Of course not.  But plenty of other people do.  There are scores of True Believers™ who think that there's a moral, even biblical obligation to invade Iran at Israel's behest.  And the politicians, like Bibi, know how to tap into that idiocy.  It's how they get elected, after all.

[Hatshepsut]

An argument from incredulity doesn't become evidence by repeating it.  You've made this argument several times now and it suffers the same basic flaws...

You'll have to pardon my brief side trip to the hospital which kept me from responding promptly. Of course I am aware that pitfalls exist when one rejects a hypothesis for lack of obvious mechanism. Or, if one accepts a hypothesis for lack of obvious alternatives. However, detectives do it all the time in the cop shop when criminals try to wiggle out....

Then again, I made no arguments of any kind in post #392. Nor did I repeat myself there. (A brief second glance at it should convince you #392 was actually a response to Drew_2013.) I think the "several times" you refer to occur only once:

Even the handiwork of molecules and living things and galaxies itself seems too smart to allow me the mantra "pattern but no design or purpose."

At least that's all I'll admit to. I never expected inquest so severe as the Sanhedrin's!  

I see a lot of theists who don't get this point, they don't see the difference between their beliefs and facts.

Why should theists be the only ones susceptible to this particular ailment? Although the line between fact and belief is indeed relatively thin. We're told that the planet is committed to a long-term global warming and that the sea level will rise 6 feet by the year 2200, as though both these assertions are facts rather than forecasts. We even have a derisive label, "climate change denier," for benighted folks who should be compared to "Holocaust deniers."

Pilots take aviation weather people seriously and so should we. I'm willing to defer to the better-informed opinion of climatologists. But that's trust, a form of belief. And facts never come in future tense, so the predictions of these climatologists are also a form of belief. We see nothing wrong with believing, provided the beliefs are in accord with generally accepted standards for such things. That remains as true in our scientific era as it was for Essenes hiding in a Dead Sea cave twenty centuries ago.

[downbeatplumb]

I see a lot of theists who don't get this point, they don't see the difference between their beliefs and facts.

Why should theists be the only ones susceptible to this particular ailment? Although the line between fact and belief is indeed relatively thin. We're told that the planet is committed to a long-term global warming and that the sea level will rise 6 feet by the year 2200, as though both these assertions are facts rather than forecasts. We even have a derisive label, "climate change denier," for benighted folks who should be compared to "Holocaust deniers."

Pilots take aviation weather people seriously and so should we. I'm willing to defer to the better-informed opinion of climatologists. But that's trust, a form of belief. And facts never come in future tense, so the predictions of these climatologists are also a form of belief. We see nothing wrong with believing, provided the beliefs are in accord with generally accepted standards for such things. That remains as true in our scientific era as it was for Essenes hiding in a Dead Sea cave twenty centuries ago.

Do you have a point?
I can't see one.

[Angrboda]

An argument from incredulity doesn't become evidence by repeating it.  You've made this argument several times now and it suffers the same basic flaws...

You'll have to pardon my brief side trip to the hospital which kept me from responding promptly. Of course I am aware that pitfalls exist when one rejects a hypothesis for lack of obvious mechanism. Or, if one accepts a hypothesis for lack of obvious alternatives. However, detectives do it all the time in the cop shop when criminals try to wiggle out....

Then again, I made no arguments of any kind in post #392. Nor did I repeat myself there. (A brief second glance at it should convince you #392 was actually a response to Drew_2013.) I think the "several times" you refer to occur only once:

That was a reply aimed at Drew_2013, not you.

[robvalue]

Hatsch: I didn't say only theists make that mistake. Of course everyone makes mistakes including atheists.

[Hatshepsut]

That was a reply aimed at Drew_2013, not you.

Ahh...Drew 2013 seems to draw abundant replies.  

....Of course everyone makes mistakes including atheists.

That's great news, as an infallible atheist could be even worse than an inerrant bible of the type bible thumpers use as a club. Actually, I've made the mistake of conflating belief with fact myself. I currently believe my leg has fallen off, but that's not a fact.