The idea of God always existing

[pocaracas]

The Creator is infinitely more intelligent than us!! So much so do we pale in comparison...that we can be compared to something...ANYTHING that ...oh just forget it!!

ok, I have some patience...

How do you (or anyone) know about that?

I guess I could ask you the same question?

What?
How do I know the characteristics of a Creator entity?
I don't.
You're the one who claims to know.

"IF" (FTSOA)....there is a God....eh...wouldn't it be a good guess He is pretty smart?

That's one big IF.
We humans, as far as we know, cannot create Universes, no matter how smart we become. So I guess it has nothing to do with smartness...
This entity would know a lot about how to cook a Universe, or maybe it just happened once by mistake and he can't replicate it!
Who knows...?

IMO and others, there's more reason to believe... "think" an omnipotent individual created all that we see? JUST BECAUSE WE ARE HERE!!

Now...If this is what you need to hear; there are (at least) 3 very physical elements in our lives that defiy our understanding and are explained only by theory: Time, Water, and Gravity.

Anyone can try to explain these things (w/ scientific pov). But the reality is that there is no difinitive answers!

Are you seriously going for the god of the gaps?

And...it is the opinion of atheists that if you can't explain God in a physical sense, He doesn't exist.

Existence is a touchy subject.
What does it mean to exist?
To physically exist, you must have some form of energy.
But you would argue that emotions exist; ideas exist; imagined stories exist; imagined beings exist.... but are not physical.
Here, we may hit a stump as theists claim that god is a real entity... with at least one clear input on the physical world - the creation.
But for the knowledge of such entity to reach human minds, it must have provided more inputs into someone's physical brain. If such a thing happened far away in the past, it would have sparked the very first religion of humanity. That was clearly not christianity.... What was the first religion?
So, if this entity could do this to one human, maybe it could do it to others as well.... and, if he was pretty smart as you propose, he would have done it in a way that would be impossible to miss the point.... how come we then have several religions?

Why is belief a requirement?
Why must I, you and anyone believe that there was such an input from a deity on a few select human beings? Heck, the guy could provide that input to us all, or does he like to watch some of us convince others of a specific point of view that he provided to just one or two humans?

All these questions may lead one to hypothesize that these gods and religions were man-made...even if the original idea was sincere, but not necessarily true.
If they're man-made, all these questions can be answered. Hence atheism.

A "thinking" individual can surmise there is indeed some mystery in life?

The difference is atheists aren't interested in a mystery that personally and directly involves them! Because it makes them vulnerable.

What makes what what?!

This mystery you speak about... yeah... that's when the myth ends and the questions remain...
Man-made myths tend to suffer from that problem.

I remember as a kid, at Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner wanting to say a prayer of thanks to God. Although not very religious,(my dad and a brother are atheist/agnostic) my family members nodded and let me at it...

After my little prayer, my uncle sarcastically said: "Don't you feel stupid now?"

I looked around at everyones faces....They were all eagerly waiting for my reply! I entusiastically said: "NO, I don't feel stupid"!! No one including my uncle said a word. Everyone just started eating...And I had this great feeling of Joy!

Personally, I really felt what I said then! That was a difining moment in my spiritual evoltion. Something that can't be explained...only felt! Each of us has "something " that drives us...right? And we can't always put that into the "right" words!

So, yes...we are on very opposite ends of a sensitive issue!

That would be the warm fuzzy feelings that have been discussed last week.

Like I said when I first arrived here...I'm not here to convert anyone(although it would be a nice thought!), or shove my belief mechanism down anyones throat. I'm here to state, and defend my belief in Jesus.... and to challenge my own Faith!

Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything intelligent yet to rattle my cage!

It mostly sounds like an inner-city classroom here with insults and profanity the order of the day....w/ all the regular arguments on re-run!

But, pocaracas I appreciate your civil approach to our debate...because we can actually learn from each other! And maybe break some new ground on the old arguments. Ron

I can't say I'll provide any new arguments, but perhaps new light on old ones.
Enjoy your reading!