Custody Battle Update Thingy

[Doubting Thomas]

Actually it's not really honest since the illegality of the stuff makes its price way too high, comparing to production costs.

Invisible hand of the market. The high price is compensation for the possibility of arrest and having your whole operation shut down and confiscated.

[Autumnlicious]

Actually it's not really honest since the illegality of the stuff makes its price way too high, comparing to production costs.

Invisible hand of the market. The high price is compensation for the possibility of arrest and having your whole operation shut down and confiscated.

When it's not picking your pocket, the invisible hand is waving a gun and a badge.

[thesummerqueen]

Really, I sometimes have a hard time believing that you people are "leftists", as leftists in my country are strongly opposed to women selling their body as a commodity.

One thing in one country does not mean the same thing in another.

Only social conservatives are opposed to women "selling their bodies." As George Carlin observed, selling is legal, fucking is legal - so why isn't selling fucking legal?

I am opposed to a PIMP selling a woman's body. If she sells it, it's hers. If you think there's something wrong with it, we'll discuss it in another thread. The fact is that men are willing to buy it. What now?

And well, being a drug dealer is a bad thing. Aside from being illegal, there really is no morality in dealing drugs. A drug dealer can sell drugs to young people, old people, people with families and children and do not even care.

People who dispense medical marijuana are classed as drug dealers, and they are selling relief to young, old, families, children, and they DO care. What about that alcohol you consume? It's a drug.

I do not stereotype anyone, for I've known people who deal in various drugs.
Their worth in comparison to a man who earns less, but enough to feed his family is nothing. Their trade is not honest, and flaunts the law, by feeding false joy to the minds of troubled people.
Is that a great thing? There are cases where I find playing the devil's advocate to be unacceptable.

Not all drug dealers fit your stereotype - I know, because I've known some.

And how do I prove that it's otherwise? I really can't, not over the internet. But I really would like to know the reasons why you think so. In that way, I might understand the lot of you better, maybe.

Yes you could - by asking more questions than immediately judging. This whole thread is a prime example.

And what exactly would you have me extract from this thread?
If she had a proper family, she would not have left her home at 16. She would not have to strip for others for some cash.

Some people leave because they want to get out on their own regardless. I know people like that. We still haven't established that there is inherent shame in stripping for money. It earns good money, keeps her healthy and fed. In fact, as long as they're not doing drugs (which anyone, stripper or not, could do) strippers are also in pretty damn good shape from what I've seen. At least, the talented ones.

I do not know what kind of a job she has now, or what her degree of education is, but I know that these two are proof enough for me to say that she wasn't raised very well, not by my standards.

You never asked. She's highly intelligent. You judged before you got to know her.

Lots of people sell weed to earn money the easy way. They'd sell something more profitable if they could, perhaps, but weed can be grown home, and doesn't need large poppy fields, nor coca plantations.

Lots of people do lots of shit to earn money the easy way.

Well, she has to take care of them after she's done it, that's for sure.
But if she hadn't done them to begin with, that would have been better, yes?

So...it would have been better if her daughter hadn't been born? Is that what you're implying?

It's a *source* of information, that's for sure.

Not a good one.

Well, maybe, but it's how it's done around these parts.

Then be aware that's not how we operate here.

I'm stating my opinion as to the current knowledge I have on the topic.
As the knowledge grows, I change my assumptions, but until now, not much has changed.

I highly doubt that, but go ahead, surprise me.

Then why did he abuse you?

Because he had anger issues and self-esteem issues and felt like taking them out on us? Why does another human abuse a fellow human being? What does it have to do with the point?

Nope. My family, and the families of relatives and friends are all quite traditional, and normal. None of them experience a crisis.

Language barrier. I meant that Alei doesn't have a broken home. She might have come from one, but her kids are in a fine place, and her daughter will be too when she's back home with momma. She doesn't need a traditional "normal" family to create a good, loving home with strong intelligent children. Only people who think a family has to be a certain way say there is anything wrong with a non-traditional family.

[Erinome]

Well, if you were a relative of mine, I surely wouldn't be so polite as I'm now.
Your actions deserve no praise whatsoever. Nor do the actions of your parents.

My praise is in the bank, so I don't need your praise, nor care if you think I deserve it.

Never? Would any woman become a stripper if she would have a respectable trade? Do you think that stripping, or prostitution is a respectable job?

Because she has just turned 18 and has 13 and 14 years old sisters to support, and needs something to make up for the $5.50 an hour she's making at KFC? I don't find anything shameful about stripping, or prostitution. Some women like doing it, and you should always do what you like. Who does it hurt? As long as a woman is doing those things willingly, I don't see a problem with it.

I honestly don't even think that modeling is somewhere near respectable.

That's because you don't think very well.

But well, it generally comes down upon how you view yourself. If you think yeah, I can get over the fact that I'm earning money by showing off my body naked to people that I don't know, well, have at it.

I don't have any issues with nudity. I don't see it as taboo. Were you not born naked? Fucking A!

There are ways that allow you to "earn" money the easier and more respectable way, namely, marrying some well-earning, good-doer fellow, he'd give you a credit card and a car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Rnn2hUfq8

You sound like you're proud of that.

I'm okay with it.

How would you like if your daughter would turn up just like you?

If it's something she wants to do, and it makes her happy, I'm fine with it. Why shouldn't I be? I love her and I'll support her no matter what. I'll always be proud of my girls.

Here, we do have a set of limits. I also think that your part of the world has the same set of limits, but I think that it's just you that happens to ignore the limits that society set before you.
Fun free, yeah. Whatever you have there, we have here. Drugs, prostitution, strip clubs, and etc. We have sluts, drug addicts and whatnot.
But here, we do not try to whitewash these things. We try to minimize them. You try to glorify stripping by stating that you have made a fortune by prostituting your body to other people, you don't lie with them, but it's just the same in my eyes.

I've never had sex for money, but I wouldn't be ashamed of myself if I had. I only glorify earning my own money, and not letting limits hold you back from your dreams. If it takes a little nude ass shaking to get it done, then by all means.

Bizarre? What really is so bizarre with my reality that is seperate of *your* world? Certainly, I find your reality to be quite bizarre and disturbing.

You sound like you're mindset is stuck in the 16th century. That's bizarre, considering this is the 21st century. I'm certain that a Puritan from the 16th century would find my reality to be bizarre and disturbing, but I don't give a fuck because they're dead, and I'm not, and this is the only life I am certain I am going to get. So fuck your limits. Get busy living.

Besides, I'm not rendering judgement on anyone. I'm simply telling my opinions on their actions, as I think that judgement without action is no judgement at all.

It's good to know you understand that your problems with me aren't about me.

I believe in equality between men and women, however you said that it was in your hands to either allow him to advance on you, or not.
You did allow him, did you not? It just comes down to the same spot.

Uh. I was horny. I jumped his bones. It happens sometimes.

And it's really unfortunate that you got pregnant once more, I hope it doesn't happen again.

That makes two of us.

And look where it got you, Aleia. With another child that you have to take care of, alone, according to your statements.

Correction! I don't have to take care of her alone, I want to take care of her alone. It's my privilege to take care of her alone, and don't you ever forget it.

One night of pleasure for such trouble. But at the end, bearing the consequences is the least you can do. As I said, the child-like mind, only understands it the hard way. But well, sometimes, luck just isn't on your side. In such times, it's best not to push it, and according to your words, you like to push yours.

Learning the hard way builds character. We're both contrasting examples of that, I think.

I still do not think that dealing in things that poison the minds of people is an honest deal. It's as honest as selling a weapon to a man who plans to kill another.

K. Weed isn't poison of any sort. Ignorance just shining through like a beacon in the night. Wow, it's so bright!

But well, it's America, right?

It sure as fuck isn't Turkey.

By the way, I wonder what the court would say if they knew that the father of the child was your dealer. Here, none of you would get custody of the child.

Gotta love that 5th amendment!

And well, being a drug dealer is a bad thing. Aside from being illegal, there really is no morality in dealing drugs.
A drug dealer can sell drugs to young people, old people, people with families and children and do not even care.

Exactly why drugs should be legal and regulated.

I do not stereotype anyone, for I've known people who deal in various drugs.
Their worth in comparison to a man who earns less, but enough to feed his family is nothing. Their trade is not honest, and flaunts the law, by feeding false joy to the minds of troubled people.
Is that a great thing? There are cases where I find playing the devil's advocate to be unacceptable.

Marijuana has never harmed anyone. Who are you to determine a man's worth. Nobody. That's who.

Well, she has to take care of them after she's done it, that's for sure.
But if she hadn't done them to begin with, that would have been better, yes?

No. I'm a better, stronger person because of every mistake I've made. You think you have it all figured out, but the truth is, you're completely jaded. You don't make mistakes? Good for you, but the entire world as we know it, on almost every level is here because of accidents, mistakes and imperfections.

[thesummerqueen]

Well, if you were a relative of mine, I surely wouldn't be so polite as I'm now.
Your actions deserve no praise whatsoever. Nor do the actions of your parents.

By whose measuring stick?

There are ways that allow you to "earn" money the easier and more respectable way, namely, marrying some well-earning, good-doer fellow, he'd give you a credit card and a car.

"There are never so many rich men as pretty girls who deserve them." Jane Austen wrote that somewhere over 250 years ago I think. Regardless, you want a woman to marry you solely for your money? In exchange for what? That's respectable? Respectable is him knowing what he's paying for and the transaction ending there. Prettying it up with marriage is fucking bullshit.

Here, we do have a set of limits. I also think that your part of the world has the same set of limits, but I think that it's just you that happens to ignore the limits that society set before you.

The limits are the ones the religious right have put on society. They don't speak for everyone.

I believe in equality between men and women, however you said that it was in your hands to either allow him to advance on you, or not.
You did allow him, did you not? It just comes down to the same spot.

I think you're missing the entire fucking point: all she wanted was sex. That was all she got. Until she realized she was pregnant. Then all she wanted was for him to act like any other responsible adult on this planet and have a little care for the being he brought into this world. He was the one who turned it into a mess. Not her.

Well, everyone does what they want. I do what I want. But I think, before I act.
And it's really unfortunate that you got pregnant once more, I hope it doesn't happen again.

And I'm sure you inspect every condom you use thoroughly, or watch a woman take every one of her contraceptives for a month before having sex with her? Alei thinks before she acts too. Shit happens.

And look where it got you, Aleia. With another child that you have to take care of, alone, according to your statements.
One night of pleasure for such trouble. But at the end, bearing the consequences is the least you can do. As I said, the child-like mind, only understands it the hard way. But well, sometimes, luck just isn't on your side. In such times, it's best not to push it, and according to your words, you like to push yours.

Fucking hell I hope you don't become a father. Ever.

I still do not think that dealing in things that poison the minds of people is an honest deal. It's as honest as selling a weapon to a man who plans to kill another.
But well, it's America, right?
By the way, I wonder what the court would say if they knew that the father of the child was your dealer. Here, none of you would get custody of the child.

Make sure you say that to the next bartender who sells you booze.

[Shell B]

I'm probably pointing out the obvious here, but I should say that kilic's court predictions of sorts are similar to here. Alei might risk custody if she were to mention he was a drug dealer and that she failed a drug test. Our courts are not dissimilar in that regard. It is very possible that such things would leave the guardian ad litem proposing state custody. Our personal opinions do not matter in court. However . . . if these incidents have come up in former custody proceedings with the aforementioned asshat, they cannot be presented again. Alei's current status as a mother going as far back as the last findings in the case are all that will be considered. That being said, if I have the entire story here, I would kiss that ad litem's ass. They tend to have a lot of pull in probate court.

[Autumnlicious]

True, but reams of material evidence (photos of him force feeding minors alcohol, etc) still outweigh the simple assertion of her failing a drug test, which is material evidence.

The claim that he was her drug dealer is irrelevant as the Law heavily penalizes dealers, so bringing it up in court is a foolish endeavor.

However, if he were to lodge the claim that Allie is smoking weed currently, a sympathetic judge may order a drug test.

If she passes, however, the father's case pretty much suicides summarily.

He might be able to drag it out, but even then, material evidence and affidavits from police officers outweigh an old drug test.

[Shell B]

True, but reams of material evidence (photos of him force feeding minors alcohol, etc) still outweigh the simple assertion of her failing a drug test, which is material evidence.

The court would have access to the documents from her failed drug test. In fact, the guardian ad litem may even dig that up. However, again, if it already ended in a previous finding, they would not be able to bring it up in court again.

The claim that he was her drug dealer is irrelevant as the Law heavily penalizes dealers, so bringing it up in court is a foolish endeavor.

Yeah, I doubt it would be brought up, though it would be considered hearsay evidence anyway. They don't give a fuck about hearsay in probate court. Everyone is out to lie there anyway.

However, if he were to lodge the claim that Allie is smoking weed currently, a sympathetic judge may order a drug test.

The ad litem could even request one based on the fact that drugs were why she lost custody in the first place. I find it likely that she will be ordered to take a drug test.

If she passes, however, the father's case pretty much suicides summarily.

Oh, his case is likely to suicide no matter what, if there is all that evidence. Nonetheless, him losing custody doesn't necessarily mean she will get custody. The ad litem could suggest that the child be taken into state custody. It really all depends on the child's lawyer's findings.

He might be able to drag it out, but even then, material evidence and affidavits from police officers outweigh an old drug test.

Especially if that drug test has already been considered previously in the case.

[Erinome]

I never "lost" custody. I signed over residential custody voluntarily. In Metro-Davidson County, they can't take your children away for marijuana use, but it did hurt my case.

He walked into a courtroom, and with nothing but his word, he got a restraining order against me by saying I was a drug dealer. I actually cleaned out my system for 6 weeks so I could pass a drug test, and when I got there, the lady had me pee, but when I came out of the bathroom, she said "Oh shit! I was supposed to supervise that.".

I told her I didn't have anymore pee left, so she made me drink a bunch of water. I knew I had 5 weeks until the next court date, and I was stressed to the max. I peed again, finally, and then I left and smoked one joint. 5 weeks later, I went back to court, and the judge said my test came back diluted. I was SO PISSED. I tried to explain, but he wasn't hearing it. He made me go back and take another one, and I wasn't sweating it because I just smoked the one joint 5 weeks earlier, but it came back positive. What a bitch, right!

I wouldn't bring up that he was my drug dealer in court because I lack the evidence to prove it. I feel like what I have in evidence is plenty, and there's no way my daughter would be given to the state. I've got a clean criminal record, my son is an honor roll student with perfect attendance, I live in a nice home, make good money, I don't drink, I can pass a drug test now (because I have my dilution, B2, creatine, aspirin method down to a science), and 27 witness ready to testify I am an excellent mom... one of them being a Metro City Councilman.

He's not even bringing up drugs this time, because he's so whacked out on pharmaceutical heroine that he can't stop for 3 days to pass a drug test. I can't prove that at the moment either, but I have it on good authority, and I believe it because he was on them when we dated. If he's not going to bring up drugs, neither am I, and he had a chance to do so the other day, so I think I'm safe for now.

The only way they would put her in state's custody is if both of us are proven to be unfit, and that's not going to happen. A drug test from over a year ago won't do that. I'm pretty confident the guardian ad litem is going to work quickly to get her out of there and to me, as soon as she's up to date on all the evidence.

I hope, at least.

[Shell B]

I never "lost" custody. I signed over residential custody voluntarily. In Metro-Davidson County, they can't take your children away for marijuana use, but it did hurt my case.

Unfortunately, signing over custody is losing custody. It's easy to lose and a son-of-a-bitch to get back. Fortunately for you, most states prefer giving a child to a biological parent over taking it into custody.

I feel like what I have in evidence is plenty, and there's no way my daughter would be given to the state. I've got a clean criminal record, my son is an honor roll student with perfect attendance, I live in a nice home, make good money, I don't drink, I can pass a drug test now (because I have my dilution, B2, creatine, aspirin method down to a science), and 27 witness ready to testify I am an excellent mom... one of them being a Metro City Councilman.

It might be plenty for them to take her away from him. Whether it is enough to have them reinstate your parental custody rights is a whole different ballgame. It can certainly happen. I'm just saying that his custody and your custody are considered separately. They won't just say, "He sucks, give her to her mother."

If he's not going to bring up drugs, neither am I, and he had a chance to do so the other day, so I think I'm safe for now.

I'm certain you're safe from the results of your last piss test. I know for a fact that they cannot bring something up twice and hold it against you twice.

The only way they would put her in state's custody is if both of us are proven to be unfit, and that's not going to happen. A drug test from over a year ago won't do that.

Unfortunately, it already did. You signed over parental rights. This won't be a matter of proving you are fit. This will be a matter of proving you are now prepared to raise her. Whether you felt coerced into signing the document or not is irrelevant. If all of the above is entirely accurate, I'm sure it won't be too much trouble. Nonetheless, I just think it is important to bear in mind that the judge will take into account that you signed over custody, thus waiving your custodial rights.

I'm pretty confident the guardian ad litem is going to work quickly to get her out of there and to me, as soon as she's up to date on all the evidence.

I hope, at least.

Don't take this as a buzzkill, as no matter how long it takes, it's an important job, but my stepson's guardian ad litem filed for three extensions, dragging it out over a period of more than 6 months. Now, at that time, he was safe in my custody and that of his father, so there was no real sense of urgency. I won't go into the details of what they were looking into, but I will say he was in no danger at the time and that may make a difference to the guardian ad litem. Then again, she might have the child removed from his custody and placed in state care while she conducts her investigation. Make no mistake, you will be investigated by her too. She's probably going to interview your daughter as well. I hated that aspect of it. The kids have to go through so much bullshit.

If your interviews go anything like mine did, the lawyer will not be talking to you about evidence admitted in court. He or she will have that. The interviews will be about you. Your work, your friends, your living situation, your education level, your parenting styles, how well the child knows you and so on. He or she might ask a few questions about incidents, but there will be a lot about what you're doing with your life. I'm not sure about if she will bring up you signing over custody, as that was not an issue for our case. She might, though. I would be ready with answers that don't play the victim card. That never worked for she who must not be named. It just pissed them off. One judge threatened to throw she who must not be named out of court for hysterically crying.