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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:17 pm
(August 14, 2012 at 2:12 pm)Drich Wrote: (August 14, 2012 at 8:36 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Ahh. Getting somewhere now. If the sacrifice was being seperated from the Father, why did he need to be crucified? I would assume for the same reason He was incarnated as a man. so we would know and understand what was happening spiritually.
Quote:Doesn't this imply that during Jesus' life the holy trinity became the holy duo ?
According to Revelations Christ still retains power and Authority as a member of the God Head, but we do not know what the full extent of His sacerfice meant.
Yes, I like your explanation too, Drich. Crucifixion was (at the time) thought by many to be the worse way to go. I've heard that the Latin from which we get the word excruciating means something like out of the cross. It shows the extent to which Jesus was willing to suffer for us.
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:18 pm
(August 14, 2012 at 2:12 pm)Drich Wrote: (August 14, 2012 at 8:36 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Ahh. Getting somewhere now. If the sacrifice was being seperated from the Father, why did he need to be crucified? I would assume for the same reason He was incarnated as a man. so we would know and understand what was happening spiritually.
Quote:Doesn't this imply that during Jesus' life the holy trinity became the holy duo ?
According to Revelations Christ still retains power and Authority as a member of the God Head, but we do not know what the full extent of His sacerfice meant.
The whole of the truth of the prophets is wiped out in revelations when God says he will send Satan to the four corners of the earth; there aren't any corners its a globe and God would know that if he created the universe. There are no corners on a football. I reckon the prophets were lying or deluded that God was speaking to them
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 2:23 pm by spockrates.)
(August 14, 2012 at 2:18 pm)jupitor Wrote: (August 14, 2012 at 2:12 pm)Drich Wrote: I would assume for the same reason He was incarnated as a man. so we would know and understand what was happening spiritually.
According to Revelations Christ still retains power and Authority as a member of the God Head, but we do not know what the full extent of His sacerfice meant.
The whole of the truth of the prophets is wiped out in revelations when God says he will send Satan to the four corners of the earth; there aren't any corners its a globe and God would know that if he created the universe. There are no corners on a football. I reckon the prophets were lying or deluded that God was speaking to them
Could it be a figure of speech? A manual for the United States Navy speaks of sunrise and sunset, but you and I know that the sun does not rise nor set. Four corners of the earth might be a way of saying the whole earth. Figures of speech are common in the Bible, and Jesus was even fond of using them.
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Then, they believed that the earth was as a carpet, so they would say four corners. Sorry, they were lying/deluded/egotists/loved an audience
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 2:42 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm)spockrates Wrote: , but you and I know that the sun does not rise nor set.
It just trace tick tack toe patterns in the middle of sky.
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm
(August 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm)jupitor Wrote: Then, they believed that the earth was as a carpet, so they would say four corners. Sorry, they were lying/deluded/egotists/loved an audience
Do you ever watch the God channel? They are so brainwashed it's incredible. parents have a lot to answer for
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 2:52 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 3:14 pm by spockrates.)
(August 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm)jupitor Wrote: Then, they believed that the earth was as a carpet, so they would say four corners. Sorry, they were lying/deluded/egotists/loved an audience
Does the Navy's use of a figure of speech make the US military a bunch of lying, deluded egotists who love an audience? I'm thinking we'd need more evidence than an ambiguous passage to say the author meant us to take the words in a wooden, literal sense.
(August 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm)jupitor Wrote: (August 14, 2012 at 2:36 pm)jupitor Wrote: Then, they believed that the earth was as a carpet, so they would say four corners. Sorry, they were lying/deluded/egotists/loved an audience
Do you ever watch the God channel? They are so brainwashed it's incredible. parents have a lot to answer for
Agreed. Can't blame people for thinking Christians are nut jobs after seeing some of what passes for Christianity on TV!
Jupitor:
But if you are thinking the Old Testament teaches the earth has corners, please consider this passage:
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
(Isaiah 40:22)
The Hebrew for the word translated as circle in this passage can also be translated as sphere, I've heard. The word circle can also mean a sphere, or orb in the English language, as evidenced by definition (16) of the word at Dictionary.com. The site even uses the words, "circle of the earth" as a phrase meaning a sphere.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/circle?s=t
Please don't get me wrong. I'd never suggest that the Bible should be used as a science textbook. I'm just thinking that it does not necessarily contradict any currently accepted scientific fact.
"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 3:36 pm
(August 14, 2012 at 2:17 pm)spockrates Wrote: (August 14, 2012 at 2:12 pm)Drich Wrote: I would assume for the same reason He was incarnated as a man. so we would know and understand what was happening spiritually.
According to Revelations Christ still retains power and Authority as a member of the God Head, but we do not know what the full extent of His sacerfice meant.
Yes, I like your explanation too, Drich. Crucifixion was (at the time) thought by many to be the worse way to go. I've heard that the Latin from which we get the word excruciating means something like out of the cross. It shows the extent to which Jesus was willing to suffer for us.
Could be worse, it at least gets you outside.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 4:20 pm
@ spockrates, all very well but the universe is not a canopy. Each star will eventually die, explode and then there will be nothing. Never again will there be life in the universe but 'we' are talking about ten billion years from now
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RE: What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?
August 14, 2012 at 5:36 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 5:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm)spockrates Wrote: Could it be a figure of speech? A manual for the United States Navy speaks of sunrise and sunset, but you and I know that the sun does not rise nor set. Four corners of the earth might be a way of saying the whole earth. Figures of speech are common in the Bible, and Jesus was even fond of using them.
How do you determine what is supposed to be a figure of speech and what is not? Couldn't the whole "sin" bit be a figure of speech? How about god, couldn't god be a figure of speech? Couldn't any part of the narrative be a figure of speech (or none at all)? You do talk about parts of this narrative often as though they were literal, but since you've decided to cast the shadow of doubt over whether or not any given passage is literal, that would have vast implications wouldn't it?
One of my favorite examples, the lord stopping the sun in the sky...well, thats one hell of a miracle. The sun stopping bit not so much, because the sun wouldn't be what stopped, and the earth stopping still not so much, but all of the things that would happen to this rock if it did come to a sudden screeching halt - not happening-. Its a long litany of unconsidered miracles (which didn't sound off the wall to those who wrote it because they had no clue).
-Or-
That entire part of the narrative..that miracle of god...was just a figure of speech.
There are more...
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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