Posts: 439
Threads: 18
Joined: October 11, 2011
Reputation:
12
Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 7:15 am
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2012 at 7:24 am by pgrimes15.)
Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!
I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.
Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.
Regards
Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon
Posts: 739
Threads: 30
Joined: April 28, 2012
Reputation:
17
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 7:45 am
Where's the guilt without the crucifixion? Sorry, I'll let the theists answer.
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 8:54 am
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2012 at 8:55 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Because, generally speaking, you have to give something to get something with magic. Scapegoating requires a goat. It's a mystical blanket of reciprocity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 9:06 am
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2012 at 9:06 am by LastPoet.)
Its a plot device and a lame one at that. The hero dies a gruesome death then "deus ex machina".
Posts: 2968
Threads: 10
Joined: June 2, 2012
Reputation:
44
Re: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2012 at 9:49 am by NoraBrimstone.)
Because God, being omnipotent and omniscient, obviously didn't know what it was to be human and suffer nor had he the power to find out by clicking his magic fingers.
Posts: 6300
Threads: 78
Joined: May 14, 2011
Reputation:
82
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 10:45 am
Grimesy, a question for you. Why the Alpha course and how can you stand it? 
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
Posts: 532
Threads: 5
Joined: January 30, 2012
Reputation:
5
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 11:34 am
(August 15, 2012 at 7:15 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!
I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.
Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.
Regards
Grimesy
Well, the simple answer would be "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin" (Hebrews 9:22). The tougher question, I think, is the more general one: why is shedding of blood necessary for the remission of sin?
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 11:46 am
Because the OT god is a vengeful, bloody, bastard.
Unfortunately, the later development of the doctrine of the trinity makes the story even more ridiculous.
![[Image: 16bf0cw-2.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i4.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy108%2Frschilla%2F16bf0cw-2.jpg)
Posts: 62
Threads: 1
Joined: August 8, 2012
Reputation:
2
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Because God delved into Blood Magic, and liked what he had seen.
Gary Johnson 2012. America's representative for Reason and Logic.
Posts: 13392
Threads: 187
Joined: March 18, 2012
Reputation:
48
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
August 15, 2012 at 12:56 pm
(August 15, 2012 at 7:15 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!
I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.
Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.
Regards
Grimesy
I think I answered this in the other thread.
The crusifiction was a physical manfestation of the turmoil and suffering Christ endured on a spiritual level. He endured this so we would have some idea of the cost of salvation/attonement for sin.
|
