Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

[Minimalist]

Gnosticism is a bit more abstract and intellectual than mainstream Christianity

Naturally. Mainstream xtianity is for dolts. Just look at G-C.

[Darkstar]

@ Darkstar, you are childish, you can not give intelligent answers to any replies, I really do not know why you try, being juvenile is a sad thing for a man, that's if you are a man. The truth of scripture has never been disproved, all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account, they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

So it's a historical account that...isn't a historical account? Or is it supposed to show us how terrible god is so we fear him? By the way, what is the truth of scripture? Even among christians there are disagreements. It is so vaguely defined that it can't always be disproven, but it often can.

Let's see what we have here:
Leviticus 11:4

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“‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.

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Daniel 4:10-11

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These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth.

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The earth is not flat.

[Ryantology]

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.

Most living creatures are prokaryotes and, thus, not sexual.

Also, I doubt this particular prokaryote was on Noah's list, as it did not exist then.

[Drich]

Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

Why do you believe God hates babies?

Scriptures indicate that God knows that babies in the womb have not done anything good or evil. They also indicate that God hates some babies even while in the womb and innocent. It is also said that God creates us and our characters. Our characters, as we evolve, cannot help but do evil. God then is responsible for the evil that we will do as he has created our natures. Natures that we cannot help but follow.

..And you have book chapter and verse for all of this?

We can blame our free will and the choices we make for the evil that we do but this does not explain why our God created natures decide to do evil.

If you want to know the answer to this question then simply ask God to open your eyes, mind and heart to receive what is in plain site.

We have no choice and no free will to deviate from our God given sin nature and God would know this as it is was all planned. Jesus was to die even before man was created. That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin.

wow, That was quick! It looks like your eyes are beginning to open already!

If we have no choice in following our sin natures, and cannot deviate from our part in God’s plan, then what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

Some quick biblically based definations first:

Sin, Anything not in the Expressed Will of God.

Expressed Will of God, God's verbal, or written command; The Law of God.

Evil, A malicious intent to sin. In other words one can consider 'evil' to be the proof, that we can indeed be outside of the Expressed will of God. For it is from the well spring of man heart and desire to be in his own will, that takes him to these depths away from God.

Also know, Not all sin is evil, but all evil is indeed sin.

In order for their to be a choice there must be a contrast or options to choose from. God labled this contrast Sin and Righteousness. Sin is anything outside the expressed will of God. and Righteousness is the absence of sin.

Still with me?
Honestly read what is written and do not assume you know what it is I am going to say.

We have been given a choice to make. That is right all of our 'free will' boils down to one choice. In giving us the ablity to Choose a contrast must be present. why? Because if we were in the Expressed will of God then our choice would not be ours to make as everything we do would have been in God's expressed will. There by rendering our 'choice' an extention of God's own will. (Meaning our choice would have been what God chose for us and subsequently not our choice at all.) This contrast or ablity to be outside the expressed will of God is again known as sin. But the requirement to be in the presents of God is to be sinless...

Here in lies the paradox. If we Choose our eternal state from God's own expressed will, then our choice would not be our own. If we Choose our eternal state from a position of contrast, apart from God's expressed will our very ablity to choose eliminates the viablity of the choice we were to make. For it is only from the position of sin that a true choice can be made.

Enter Christ and His blood sacerfice. The attonement offered here wipes away or removes the stain of sin, so all that is left is the believers choice to spend eternity with God.

So in light of this information lets take another look at your question:

what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

God 'programed us to make a choice.' You will be punished because you chose to be punished when you chose not to be redeemed.
That is why good deeds, and all the moral crap you want to do has absolutly no bearing on your eternal status. "So no, Man can boast" As Christ Himself puts it.

That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin. He could not help but sin and neither can any of us.

yup!

This is all rather abstract so if you like I will imagine a viable scenario for us to work with. We all know that many are starving to death in various countries.

What kind of monster knows this and does nothing but blame a God he supposedly does not believe in for it?

Imagine one of these starving children walking past a farmer’s apple tree. The child knows that if he steals the apples that the farmer’s family will starve to death. He or she has a choice of either stealing apples to prevent their death or not. The survival instinct being our first instinct, I think apples will be eaten.

That child’s God given nature will choose life, as all natures do by default, and eat an apple. Does that child deserve hell when it’s God given nature drove it to sin?

If He does not choose to be with God in eternity Yes!

Why? Because God would be a Monster if He dragged that soul into Heaven and forced Him to serve for all eternity if that person did not want to be there.

We cannot do anything but follow our basic God given natures. Do we deserve hell for doing so?

If we do not seek attonement yes we deserve Hell!

Is God’s punishment unjust?

Probably not for the ones enduring it, but for the rest of creation, Yes!

If sin was required for Jesus to manifest, Adam had to sin. Would his punishment and death have also been unjust?

no idea what you just said.

Did God, knowing Adam would be a sinner and cause God’s/Jesus’ death, hate Adam as well when he was creating him?

We are told God loves the repentant sinner but hates the sin.

that was fun

[Darkstar]

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We have no choice and no free will to deviate from our God given sin nature and God would know this as it is was all planned. Jesus was to die even before man was created. That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin.

wow, That was quick! It looks like your eyes are beginning to open already!

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So you admit that god rigged it for us to lose?

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If we have no choice in following our sin natures, and cannot deviate from our part in God’s plan, then what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

Some quick biblically based definations first:

Sin, Anything not in the Expressed Will of God.

Expressed Will of God, God's verbal, or written command; The Law of God.

Evil, A malicious intent to sin. In other words one can consider 'evil' to be the proof, that we can indeed be outside of the Expressed will of God. For it is from the well spring of man heart and desire to be in his own will, that takes him to these depths away from God.

Also know, Not all sin is evil, but all evil is indeed sin.

In order for their to be a choice there must be a contrast or options to choose from. God labled this contrast Sin and Righteousness. Sin is anything outside the expressed will of God. and Righteousness is the absence of sin.

Still with me?
Honestly read what is written and do not assume you know what it is I am going to say.

We have been given a choice to make. That is right all of our 'free will' boils down to one choice. In giving us the ablity to Choose a contrast must be present. why? Because if we were in the Expressed will of God then our choice would not be ours to make as everything we do would have been in God's expressed will. There by rendering our 'choice' an extention of God's own will. (Meaning our choice would have been what God chose for us and subsequently not our choice at all.) This contrast or ablity to be outside the expressed will of God is again known as sin. But the requirement to be in the presents of God is to be sinless...

Here in lies the paradox. If we Choose our eternal state from God's own expressed will, then our choice would not be our own. If we Choose our eternal state from a position of contrast, apart from God's expressed will our very ablity to choose eliminates the viablity of the choice we were to make. For it is only from the position of sin that a true choice can be made.

Enter Christ and His blood sacerfice. The attonement offered here wipes away or removes the stain of sin, so all that is left is the believers choice to spend eternity with God.

So in light of this information lets take another look at your question:

what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

God 'programed us to make a choice.' You will be punished because you chose to be punished when you chose not to be redeemed.

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In the end, all god ever cares about is if we are willing to be his slaves. Why do we need to be constantly redeemed if Jesus wiped away the sin? That's right, he didn't. God designed us to sin for the very purpose that we might repent and be subserviant. With the church constantly reminding you what a terrible person you are, you can't help but feel even more pathetic compared to god; you wouldn't dare question his authority.

That is why good deeds, and all the moral crap you want to do has absolutly no bearing on your eternal status. "So no, Man can boast" As Christ Himself puts it.

Which is why things like 9/11 happen. Obeying god takes precedence over genuine morals, by this logic.

That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin. He could not help but sin and neither can any of us.

yup!

But the human race endures terrible curses because of it. Some mercy...

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This is all rather abstract so if you like I will imagine a viable scenario for us to work with. We all know that many are starving to death in various countries.

What kind of monster knows this and does nothing but blame a God he supposedly does not believe in for it?

Imagine one of these starving children walking past a farmer’s apple tree. The child knows that if he steals the apples that the farmer’s family will starve to death. He or she has a choice of either stealing apples to prevent their death or not. The survival instinct being our first instinct, I think apples will be eaten.

That child’s God given nature will choose life, as all natures do by default, and eat an apple. Does that child deserve hell when it’s God given nature drove it to sin?

If He does not choose to be with God in eternity Yes!

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Why? Because God would be a Monster if He dragged that soul into Heaven and forced Him to serve for all eternity if that person did not want to be there.

I still don't know why you think hell isn't pure tortue by definition.

We cannot do anything but follow our basic God given natures. Do we deserve hell for doing so?

If we do not seek attonement yes we deserve Hell!

I'm sorry that you made me imperfect god, seeing as how it's my fault and I should be exclusively blamed for it.

Is God’s punishment unjust?

Probably not for the ones enduring it, but for the rest of creation, Yes!

Wow, god must be pretty merciless, considering that under the rules of catholicism the vast majority of people are going to hell.

[Drich]

Wow, god must be pretty merciless, considering that under the rules of catholicism the vast majority of people are going to hell.

Good thing God isn't a devoute catholic.

;P

[Cinjin]

The truth of scripture has never been disproved ...

Before anything can be considered 'truth,' it must be proven to be just that. Therefore your statement is idiocy since real truth (that which has already been proven to be fact) cannot be disproven.

Are some parts of the bible true? Perhaps, but most of it is hearsay and philosophical gobbledegook, and your biased assertions about it mean nothing.

... all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account,

And yet you and your apologists friends will bend over backwards trying to squeeze real history out of your book of lies.

... they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

Nope. The greatest thing I ever did in my life was rid myself of that ridiculous religion. It's easy to imagine a better life than the one your non-existent god supplies. Self-loathing, anxiety, guilt, fear ... all the earmarks of the "better life" your angry narcissistic god supplies.

[Darkstar]

Good thing God isn't a devoute catholic.

;P

...yeah, I imagine he has no religion...your point? That refers to the ten commandments, which are also a part of Judaism and Christianity as a whole.

[Godscreated]

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@ Darkstar, you are childish, you can not give intelligent answers to any replies, I really do not know why you try, being juvenile is a sad thing for a man, that's if you are a man. The truth of scripture has never been disproved, all you want to do is focus on the history of scripture and they were never written for a historical account, they are a spiritual guide to a life that is better than anything you can imagine.

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So it's a historical account that...isn't a historical account? Or is it supposed to show us how terrible god is so we fear him? By the way, what is the truth of scripture? Even among christians there are disagreements. It is so vaguely defined that it can't always be disproven, but it often can.

Let's see what we have here:
Leviticus 11:4 "‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.

---

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That is not split nor is it a hoof.

Daniel 4:10-11These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth.
The earth is not flat.

That would mean the horizon or the known world.

[Drich]

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.

Most living creatures are prokaryotes and, thus, not sexual.

Also, I doubt this particular prokaryote was on Noah's list, as it did not exist then.

To the church's Defence. I do not believe I have ever seen a "Misteak." Have you? I would say it is a good bet that God does not make them. ;P

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Good thing God isn't a devoute catholic.

;P

...yeah, I imagine he has no religion...your point? That refers to the ten commandments, which are also a part of Judaism and Christianity as a whole.

Ah, no.

The 10 commandments are not the 'christian rules' nor the way one gets into Heaven.

The ten commandments play a role in that they are designed to condemn one of sin, to the point that the sinner seeks salvation and freedom from the Law/10 Commandments (plus a whole lot more) and free from the consenquences of sin.

As a Christian we do not need the law as a measure of Righteousness. We have been Freed from the law.