When you prayed did it ever work?

[Welsh cake]

I'm afraid it is. You denying it makes no difference to that. Science rules.

I don't care what you think fr0d0.

Neither do you, I suspect, judging by how sloppy that shitty response was.

[FallentoReason]

I wouldn't have you waste it on triviality

How dare you call the poor in Thailand trivialities! How dare you! Aren't you remotely aware that the typical Christian is meant to be the lowest of the low, that they will inherit the riches of his Kingdom while the rich of this world rot? Your god mucked up massively with the perfect candidates whether you like it or not. The Bible didn't come through once during that trip. No surprises there.

---

Sounds like God made his point.

You cannot possibly be a Christian with such a cold heart. I'm sorry, but I can't believe what I'm reading right now haha.

[fr0d0]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe what I'm reading right now haha.

Ditto LOL

[Drich]

When I went on my self-funded missions trip with a team of fellow Pentecostal friends to Thailand, my one objective was to "bring heaven to earth".

What does that mean? Bring heaven to earth. Is their a biblical example or command that we do this?

I didn't pray any prayer to make the world a better place, but rather, I was practical about it and set myself up to be used by God over in Thailand.

Appearently not. You were looking to tap into God to accomplish your goals your desires. Look at what you say next. You were looking to Heal. What if God wanted or needed you to do something else, but you were holding out to heal because you decided that you would 'claim' that work from God. You were not there for God, you were their for you. You wanted a great power to claim for yourself. You wanted a gift like simon the sourcer, and tried to buy it like he did by going to Thailand on your own dime. Why would God give or rather sell someone a gift who was not Spiritually mature enough to use it? (the fact that you tried to buy a spiritual gift says you are not mature enough to use it)

Acts8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”24 Then Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me.”25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Not one sick person was ever healed. How much conviction is needed in the believer's heart for God to respond?

Enough to submit to God, and whatever Spiritual gift He has or will give you, and to work dillegently with it no matter what that may look like. Rather than go off somewhere and try and buy the one you want simply because you are 'convicted' that the one you want is the one He wants you to have..

Was a leap of faith on my part (I always thought that mission trips weren't for me), 2 months of putting all my part-time pay towards the trip and sacrificing my time to serve others STILL not enough for God to heal even the common cold?

Appearently yes. God has Demended your All and All not two months of Part time pay. I can see how one could get caught up in the idea that is how you give your all in all by going on to mission trips, especially in that brand of christianity. But, you yourself admitted that going on these trips weren't that big of a deal.. If you Had truthfully given your whole self to God you would have A/S/K for the gift of the Holy Spirit. To which Spiritual Descernment is a 'fruit' we all receive to one degree or another, More over in your seeking for the Spirit you would have read your bible. More specifically you would have read 1corthians 12. This is where Paul speaks of one body many parts. Meaning even though we are unified in Christ not all of our Spiritual gifts will manifest themselves in the same way. Now couple this with the smallest amount of Spiritual descernement and you could have seen that if you were not 'feeling this mission trip' then you through the 'gifts' you were slated for wasn't right for this trip. Meaning more specifically that if God had not given you, or you were not going to be given anything that would help you on this mission trip you would not have any desperate desire to go. And if your church or church members were still trying to sell you on this trip then again with the SMALLEST amount of Spiritual descernement you would have known this church/denomination was not right for you. For in 1 Cor 12 Paul tells us not all have been given the same Spiritual gift, and yet they were pushing people to 'heal' others. again if you had completely given yourself to God this message Paul wrote nearly 2000 years ago would have put the brakes on the whole thing.. Unless you just wanted to goto Thailand.

Pushing people into gifts is a type of toxic faith.(It destroys believers and their faiths) for it pushes them in a direction where God is not, and when they do not find God they assume their isn't a God to be found. Understand God is not going to positivly reinforce toxic behaivor. It is for This reason that toxic faith is worse than unbelief, and those who teach this type of faith will have much to answer for. Because alot fo the bible has to be ignored in order to get to a place where we try and teach others to conjoure God's power on demand.

Wake up Drich. It's all in your head.

Says the man who could not buy God's attention with a trip to thailand.

I tell you the truth. If my experience with God was the same as yours, then I would absolutly share your conclusions. But, I have seen too much, experienced too much, witnessed too much, Heard too much for anyone to convince me otherwise. The thing is, I am no one special. I just took the time to ask God to show me what it is I needed to know despite what any religion says about Him, and I asked that I be strong enough to follow Him where ever He may lead me. If you want to know God, as He is rather than as you (or your old church) would have Him to be, then take what ever faith you have left and ask him to show you what He has shown me, and keep asking till you see Him.

[Cyberman]

I'd still like to know what "He's talking to YOU!" means. Who "He" is, for a start; since the topic at that point was about "communion" with a figment of indoctrination, the word "He" comes off as ambiguous. I hate unnecessary ambiguity, especially for the sake of excessively and pretentiously saccharinous faux-mysticism. Then there's "YOU!" ME personally? Or ME plural, ie the unbrainwashed?

Well I liked the ambiguity. Take it how you like. 'He' was you, and 'YOU' is the dear reader.

Ah. Then you had nothing besides the pretention. All this "He" is "you" stuff is concentrated gibberish; I choose to take it as such, as per your kind offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_RGU_kxKg?rel=0

[FallentoReason]

What does that mean? Bring heaven to earth. Is their a biblical example or command that we do this?

It's from Jesus himself. Sermon on the Mount; the Lord's Prayer:

"...your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."

Appearently not. You were looking to tap into God to accomplish your goals your desires. Look at what you say next. You were looking to Heal. What if God wanted or needed you to do something else, but you were holding out to heal because you decided that you would 'claim' that work from God. You were not there for God, you were their for you. You wanted a great power to claim for yourself. You wanted a gift like simon the sourcer, and tried to buy it like he did by going to Thailand on your own dime. Why would God give or rather sell someone a gift who was not Spiritually mature enough to use it? (the fact that you tried to buy a spiritual gift says you are not mature enough to use it)

I'm finding this mentality sickening by the minute. I completely gave myself over to God so that he could reach out to people. To propose that I didn't fill this requirement or I got to Thailand the wrong way (what, was I supposed to row over there instead of "buy" my way to helping them?) and that's why God did nothing is just sickening.

Acts8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”24 Then Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me.”25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

What utter rubbish. You've set up a strawman. Why the heck would I want to "buy" a spiritual gift? Your bloody book says we've been given the authority to witness via signs such as healing. I saw some severe diseases over there (including a man at the hospital who was minutes from death) and God did NOTHING.

Enough to submit to God, and whatever Spiritual gift He has or will give you, and to work dillegently with it no matter what that may look like. Rather than go off somewhere and try and buy the one you want simply because you are 'convicted' that the one you want is the one He wants you to have..

In other words, the "gift" you get given is indistinguishable from coincidences occuring by anything other than divine means. This explains why NO ONE healed during that trip, including our heavyweight miracle healer who claims to heal at our local hospital every weekend (as opposed to going to church on a Sunday. Yeah, he's that committed).

Appearently yes. God has Demended your All and All not two months of Part time pay. I can see how one could get caught up in the idea that is how you give your all in all by going on to mission trips, especially in that brand of christianity. But, you yourself admitted that going on these trips weren't that big of a deal.. If you Had truthfully given your whole self to God you would have A/S/K for the gift of the Holy Spirit. To which Spiritual Descernment is a 'fruit' we all receive to one degree or another, More over in your seeking for the Spirit you would have read your bible. More specifically you would have read 1corthians 12. This is where Paul speaks of one body many parts. Meaning even though we are unified in Christ not all of our Spiritual gifts will manifest themselves in the same way. Now couple this with the smallest amount of Spiritual descernement and you could have seen that if you were not 'feeling this mission trip' then you through the 'gifts' you were slated for wasn't right for this trip. Meaning more specifically that if God had not given you, or you were not going to be given anything that would help you on this mission trip you would not have any desperate desire to go. And if your church or church members were still trying to sell you on this trip then again with the SMALLEST amount of Spiritual descernement you would have known this church/denomination was not right for you. For in 1 Cor 12 Paul tells us not all have been given the same Spiritual gift, and yet they were pushing people to 'heal' others. again if you had completely given yourself to God this message Paul wrote nearly 2000 years ago would have put the brakes on the whole thing.. Unless you just wanted to goto Thailand.

Pushing people into gifts is a type of toxic faith.(It destroys believers and their faiths) for it pushes them in a direction where God is not, and when they do not find God they assume their isn't a God to be found. Understand God is not going to positivly reinforce toxic behaivor. It is for This reason that toxic faith is worse than unbelief, and those who teach this type of faith will have much to answer for. Because alot fo the bible has to be ignored in order to get to a place where we try and teach others to conjoure God's power on demand.

Out of a church edging on 1000 people, not one person has the gift of healing. I highly HIGHLY doubt that that is probable. The better explanation is that the Christian god doesn't exist.

Says the man who could not buy God's attention with a trip to thailand.

I tell you the truth. If my experience with God was the same as yours, then I would absolutly share your conclusions. But, I have seen too much, experienced too much, witnessed too much, Heard too much for anyone to convince me otherwise. The thing is, I am no one special. I just took the time to ask God to show me what it is I needed to know despite what any religion says about Him, and I asked that I be strong enough to follow Him where ever He may lead me. If you want to know God, as He is rather than as you (or your old church) would have Him to be, then take what ever faith you have left and ask him to show you what He has shown me, and keep asking till you see Him.

The Muslim will also tell me of their experiences with god. Anecdotal evidence is inconclusive because every religion will tell you the same thing.

[fr0d0]

I choose to take it as such, as per your kind offer.

Yw

[Cyberman]

Np

---

Srsly!

---

[Drich]

[quote='FallentoReason' pid='358156' dateline='1351960656']
It's from Jesus himself. Sermon on the Mount; the Lord's Prayer:

"...your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."
This is not a command that you go out and take upon yourself to do. "Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" Is a prayer that the man's reign be over, and that God usher in the end of this age. In otherwords it is a prayer that we ask that the events in revelation take place. On a smaller more personal scale It's also a prayer to the faithful to give up our own will, (Like for instance to insist that we be given one spiritual gift over another.)

[quote]I'm finding this mentality sickening by the minute. I completely gave myself over to God so that he could reach out to people.[/quote]No, by your own admission you went to Thailand to 'Heal' people. If you went for God then you would have been satasified cleaning toilets and found the whole trip (cleaning toilets or whatever task you were given) an oppertunity to serve God. For it is the act of serving that is important, and not how you are serving that legitmizes your efforts.

[quote]To propose that I didn't fill this requirement or I got to Thailand the wrong way (what, was I supposed to row over there instead of "buy" my way to helping them?) and that's why God did nothing is just sickening. [/quote]It would be sickening to me as well if I found out all my best efforts were meant to obtain or 'buy' a very specific spiritual gift.

[quote]What utter rubbish. You've set up a strawman. Why the heck would I want to "buy" a spiritual gift? [/quote]Why would you want to 'buy' the gift of healing? Maybe because you honestly wanted to help people in thialand, (Which btw is what I honestly think) Maybe you wanted to cash in on this gift like a Benny Hinn, or maybe you wanted to be held in high regaurd amongest all your peers. Maybe you did this to impress a girl at church. Who knows for sure. that is between you and God. That said the facts remain. You put fourth a 'huge effort' to pay your way to this country so that God could only use you to Heal the sick and dying. you went or rather you PAID your way to an area that had a very specific need that only a very specific Gift could resolve (in your mind) and you assumed that God would use you to fill the need you saw.

What if God needed you too rid yourself of this toxic faith in order to use you first? Would giving you the gift you sought after while in this toxic faith state of mind help you rid yourself of this faith, or would it be throwing gasoline on a fire? You needed to hit bottom with what you believed, and God allowed you to do just that. Causeing you to perge the whole of your religious understanding, so you could have the oppertunity to build something that resembles the biblical Christianity we are all to have. If you are not faithful to the purge of your old faith, and seek out God beyond what you once knew of Him, then how could you possiable be entrusted with a gift such as healing?

[quote]Your bloody book says we've been given the authority to witness via signs such as healing. [/quote] If you want to see healing goto a hospitial or to a recovery ward, or to a nursing home in your community. You do not need to go 1/2 way around the world to see that.

[quote] I saw some severe diseases over there (including a man at the hospital who was minutes from death) and God did NOTHING. [/quote]God brought that man into eternity...

Maybe that is another reason why you have not been given the gift you seek. You think that death is a punishment or the end of something. Death is a blessing to all who Love God. This life is the curse. The only reasons one needs to be healed is to bring glory to God or if the person being healed is not finished with what God has tasked Him to do in this life. As 'we' do not know, who has what to do, that leaves giving glory to God. If you do not live a life giving glory to God with out this gift, receiving this gift will only drive you deeper into yourself. (Meaning God will not receive the Glory due to Him by giving you this gift.)

[quote]In other words, the "gift" you get given is indistinguishable from coincidences occuring by anything other than divine means.[/quote]Absolutly not. Our spirituaql gifts have been listed by Paul in 1 cor 12. Again the Smallest amount of Spiritual discernment would have shown you this. If you do not have the basic Spiritual fruit, than How could you ever hope to be entrusted with such an awesome gift?

[quote] This explains why NO ONE healed during that trip, including our heavyweight miracle healer who claims to heal at our local hospital every weekend (as opposed to going to church on a Sunday. Yeah, he's that committed).[/quote]
Actually no. If you depended on a complete flush of the toxic faith you were apart of, and even if God used this heavy hitter before, but you need to see a complete fail inorder for you to follow the path He has for you, then He would have delivered you to see that fail.

[quote]Out of a church edging on 1000 people, not one person has the gift of healing. I highly HIGHLY doubt that that is probable. [/quote]
Miraciolus healing is got to be one of the rarest gifts given to people. out of the 10's of thousands of Christians I have met in my life time I only have ever met one person with this gift. I was Healed twice by her. Once from severe asthma attacks I suffered since childhood,(to walking away never having to use or take anything ever again,) and the second time she prayed over me I was diagnosised with HIV. I have know this person to pray over others and sometimes they walked away healed and other times they did not. it all depended on the person being healed. Those who had service to God still to give were healed and those who were at the end were called home. It is from this person that I learned that. It is not upto the vessal to determine who is Healed but it is upto God.

[quote]The Muslim will also tell me of their experiences with god. Anecdotal evidence is inconclusive because every religion will tell you the same thing.[/quote]You've never talked with muslims, for you are confusing the things the God of the bible does and has promised with what Allah does and has promised. Yours is an invalid arguement because a muslim would not have claimed to have the power of healing, for the God he serves does not offer such gifts.

All of that said, If you earnestly Ask for this Gift and God slated you to receive this gift, but first had to flush you of all of your toxic beliefs, would you still want this gift? Or do you/did you only want this gift on your terms? In your church, on demand or in thialand? Would you want this gift if it seperated you from everyone you knew and everything you thought you knew of God? What are you willing to give to use this gift as God wants it to be used?

[Edwardo Piet]

I didn't say that.

I re-read and, apologies, I made another mistake.

You see, you said that you know God's will by testing it against him, but, the thing is, I wrongly interpreted the 'it' to mean 'his will' and it looked like you were talking nonsense. I now realize that the 'it' was referring to 'prayer' that was used in the previous sentence.

Ok then, how do you know God's will by testing prayer against him?