Prayer Death

[Pippy]

It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks about it.

Yes, all we have are opinions about someone else's business...

I just don't like seeing a parent praying their kid to death (a tragedy itself) associated with some flaw in belief or prayer. The flaw is in the parents, not in the structure of their beliefs.

That proves just how useless prayer is.

Like that. We just had this same argument. Prayer is not demonstrated as useless if someone uses is incorrectly. Parents that kill their kids with lack of medical treatment have nothing to do with the validity of personal coping mechanisms... But seriously, it must not have been 2 weeks ago I was saying the same retort to someone else who dismissed the possible power of prayer for the same exact reason...

Prayer must hold some power, if only to get a parent to watch his child die while trying to pray the sickness away. That must not be easy, or do people who believe in god not love their children?
But it is none of my business, and all I have are my little opinions.
Thanks,
-Pip

[Tiberius]

Didn't we just have this argument? Every time someone thanks god for something, and every time someone prays someone to death you guys jump all over it... I don't want to get back in it, just go read last weeks thread to see what I thought then...

-Pip

If you don't want to talk about it, don't make a post.

Evidently people other than yourself want to discuss it, so stop complaining.

[bozo]

Pippy, stop digging......prayer just don't work, how can it when nobody's listening?
To convince me ( maybe us all ) you would have to pray before us all for a stiff to come alive and whistle dixie. Want to arrange it?

[Rhizomorph13]

Bozo,

I would settle for much less to prove that prayer worked. For example I could flip a coin 100 times while he prayed for heads, and if heads showed up more than could be accounted for by random chance... prayer would be proven.

We already established that what Pippy calls "prayer" is actually just "meditation", well in my own mental model.

Rhizo

[bozo]

Bozo,

I would settle for much less to prove that prayer worked. For example I could flip a coin 100 times while he prayed for heads, and if heads showed up more than could be accounted for by random chance... prayer would be proven.

We already established that what Pippy calls "prayer" is actually just "meditation", well in my own mental model.

Rhizo

Fair enough....but my test is more spectacular, don't you think!

[Pippy]

Adrian, this is starting down that path we don't want to go. It's not that I won't talk about it... I am just begrudged to make the same exact points that are here in a two week old thread. Let's discuss it, I am not complaining. I think that praying that your kid beats leukemia, or that a coin will flip more than 50% of the time one way, is not prayer. What if the coin happened to flip more heads? What if your kid survived? The prayer was functional? No. But whether or not you agree with the beliefs of people you read about in the newspaper is petty.

My only problem, and it is always a small and specific one, is the all encompasing terms. For a second time someone said "Prayer is useless" and "you're an idiot to pray (in general)" and I have to say that that is your own opinion, and you may be misunderstanding something that is foreign to you. Namely an aspect of belief.

But seriously, we just did this exact conversation. And next there will be an article where some survivor thanks god, and you all flip out. And then another about a prayer death. And another about thanking god. and on and on and on.

We have heard your opinions about these subjects, and when it is a big circle back patting, and someone makes a disingenuous statement, like prayer is useless, I feel like I have to add a little voice of reason...
Thanks,
-Pip

[dry land fish]

Prayer does NOT work. If you think it does then it's all in your head. I'd suggest you watch that new Bill Maher movie about religion. He really puts people like you on the spot. I've never seen anyone be able to make a Chrsitian speechless. Usually you people come back with "God can do anything because he's magical" whenever someone asks how a man can walk on water or be born of a virgin or when someone challenges the power of prayer. I think it's funny people even call it a power lol. It's more useless than a hooker without a vagina.

Show me scientific proof that prayer works.

[Pippy]

Prayer does NOT work.

That depends on the definition of "prayer" and "work".

If you think it does then it's all in your head.

Can I say that if you think it doesn't, you obviously don't understand what prayer is or should be? That it could be in your head too?

I'd suggest you watch that new Bill Maher movie about religion

Ooooh did I hate that movie. Terrible, terrible film. A great job showing how bad fanaticism can get. He never touched on non-religious fanaticism, but that's OK. Then at the conclusion, what does he say? Should we be warned of fanatics? Should we try to be more moderate and open in our views? No, he says we should treat theists as people with a mental disability and abolish religion because <gasp> there are fanatics out there. He singlehandedly shot himself in the foot so hard on that point. The problem is with fanatics, and he made himself out to be fanatical about his cause. Oh, but his cause is "right" and "scientific" and "obvious". Remember, that I am also for abolishing religion, just for the right reasons.

He really puts people like you on the spot.

I promise you have not met a person like me. You don't know what people like me are like. I would love to have Bill Maher put me on the spot. I would enjoy the debate, I have a lot of things I would like to say to him. I don't think he could argue me as well, remembering that I don't come from any religion. His anti-religious research would do little good, and we could agree about the problem of fanaticism.

I've never seen anyone be able to make a Chrsitian speechless.

OK. I have. I mean, I have made Christians speechless... And seen it...

It's more useless than a hooker without a vagina.

I don't know where to start. That is horrible. That is a terrible close to your argument, and just profane and pointless as well... But hey, say what you think is important.

Show me scientific proof that prayer works.

You go first, define what you mean by "prayer" and "works" please.

Thank you for sharing, it must be heavy to have such a big opinion.

The,
-Pip

[bozo]

Pippy, at best, you can claim that praying makes you ( and others who pray ) feel better. You cannot claim anything more, I suggest.

[Pippy]

Thank you Bozo for demonstrating the very least power prayer can hold. That does not make is literally useless anymore does it? I could try to take it much further, but yeah, feel better. Good enough.