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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:00 pm
(February 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Life is a mere test, we need to be isolated from seeing god in order to take the exam. God sent us free to roam earth as a test for each of us, eventually you're here for yourself, your work & faith is for yourself ; god doesn't take benefit from that.
But god, being omniscient, already knows who will pass and who will fail. Hence, it is not test at all since the outcome is already known. it merely becomes an exercise of cruelty and amusement.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm
(February 20, 2013 at 3:50 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Sounds like a bunch of special pleading, Atlas.
Yeah, sorry Atlas but you can take out the word "god" in everything you said and plug in "Yoda" instead, and there's absolutely no difference. Always a bad sign in storytelling.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:07 pm
(February 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: (February 20, 2013 at 3:07 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Philosophy more than science, I know. But if angels appeared people will believe in god ; god doesn't want an easy path like that. That's why I -personally- believe that non of them would appear to any of us.
The devil in Islam is the little dark voice inside your mind which tells you not to believe. Where does he live or how does he transfer those ideas to us ? nobody knows but god.
Funny. He didn't seem to have problem with "an easy path like that" in the olden days. He was appearing and speaking to everyone all the time.
Why would it be any different now seeing as how god is perfect and unchanging and all.
A god who appears to humans & interacts with them like they do is simply doesn't worth worshiping.
People hate the concept of god in Islam because it's "too superior & supreme", but I think it makes sense, that's a real god.
I don't believe in any source which says that god was socializing with humans & visit them on earth. That's why I believe in Islam in the first place ; god is supreme in this religion..
You're mixing between Christianity & Islam, Baalzebutt.
(February 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Sounds like a bunch of special pleading, Atlas.
Not "that" special  Religiously those issues are counting on other issues in a very complicated way.
Eventually nobody would consider because the previous issues are also not solved. So all my posts are actually missing many other facts.
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:09 pm
Actually, in order for god to know, she'd have to exist. If a deity is so powerful, why the heck does it need angels to deliver a message? The mere fact that people believe in angels should demonstrate that there is no all-powerful being. How is it that some people, long dead, claim to have been given messages from god and he decided to shut up and go someplace else? Oh, wait, I know, it's part of his "test", because that's what he does when he isn't busy running the entire universe, he is focused on some guy in Independence Missouri who has finally waekened his strong mind to the point that he is ready to believe in her.
Nah. Sounds too much like the greek stories I read as a kid about Zeus. Interesting god, but had a shrew for a wife!
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: February 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm by WinterHold.)
(February 20, 2013 at 3:59 pm)EGross Wrote: (February 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Our mind is very strong, that's why god doesn't appear ; your mind should be able to detect him from the surrounding natural structures including our bodies.
Or, as I see it, since the strong minded cannot detect him, then only the weak minded ones can.
Therefore, god rejects the strong minded people and seeks only the weak minded ones to serve and obey... 
Not really.. many great minds did find that god exist.
(February 20, 2013 at 3:59 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: But god, being omniscient, already knows who will pass and who will fail. Hence, it is not test at all since the outcome is already known. it merely becomes an exercise of cruelty and amusement.
But being just, he can't judge those people before "they" act. It's not like humans are forced, we act by our free will but god knows the outcome.
(February 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yeah, sorry Atlas but you can take out the word "god" in everything you said and plug in "Yoda" instead, and there's absolutely no difference. Always a bad sign in storytelling.
It's for the same reason which I mentioned to thesummerqueen. I'm feeling disoriented & scattered because other complicated factors are not explained.
(February 20, 2013 at 4:09 pm)EGross Wrote: Actually, in order for god to know, she'd have to exist. If a deity is so powerful, why the heck does it need angels to deliver a message? The mere fact that people believe in angels should demonstrate that there is no all-powerful being. How is it that some people, long dead, claim to have been given messages from god and he decided to shut up and go someplace else? Oh, wait, I know, it's part of his "test", because that's what he does when he isn't busy running the entire universe, he is focused on some guy in Independence Missouri who has finally waekened his strong mind to the point that he is ready to believe in her.
Nah. Sounds too much like the greek stories I read as a kid about Zeus. Interesting god, but had a shrew for a wife!
EGross, as far as you understand religion , why do you think we're here ?
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:26 pm
There is also this weird mythology of god pissing off some supernatural being (Islam has Iblis, Christianity has Lucifer, and the Buddhists have Mara), and then that being works outside of god's jusrisdiction to destory humanity, whereby god then gives that being a pass. "Sure, go ahead. Enjoy!"
god's sadism knows no bounds, if you believe in the devil. But if you don't, then what is causing all of the horrid things? And hence, we end up with a dualisting universe - either god is a sadist and does it himself, or she is a sadist by letting someone else do the dirty work for her.
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Atlas, do you know what special pleading is?
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: February 20, 2013 at 4:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 20, 2013 at 12:14 am)Drich Wrote: How would an physical angel or demon differ from anyone else? What would "science" look for?
This would be the single most coherent and reasonable reply I've seen offered on the subject, whether or not this was intentional..meh. On the other hand, it isn't as though it's difficult to detect the lesser angels of our nature in the first place.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:40 pm
(February 20, 2013 at 4:21 pm)AtlasS Wrote: EGross, as far as you understand religion , why do you think we're here ?
My purpose is to be me. Yours is to be you. The purpose of a tree is to be a tree and a rock to be a rock. One does not need a divine reason to live, but one needs to create his own reason for living.
I do not require a master to submit to and be beholding to. Yes, I am a stand-alone version that operates without the need of a Master Control Program to operate at my full potential.
It's a deterministic model that I operate from. And so, my use of the software metaphor is intentional, because while yours operates as though it is free, it is not. I operate as though I am not free, but in reality, I am. 
All the best.
Eliyahu
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Why can't science detect angels and demons?
February 20, 2013 at 4:42 pm
(February 20, 2013 at 4:40 pm)EGross Wrote: Eliyahu
I've always thought that was a beautiful name. 
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