Atheism - less war?

[pocaracas]

I don't believe in God so I avoid churches so I make up my own mind about theists from secondary sources. The secondary sources show me that theists have done awful things so I decide to kill them...

Irrational but possible

Bit you just run and hide from this fact

It's the other way around: "I believe in god, so I go to church".

[The Grand Nudger]

I believe in god, I believe god requires that I attend church, therefore I attend church.
god god god

[Dawud]

I see - you think Im trying to define atheists

You are wrong

I am arguing for the potential for people to kill in the process of trying to make others atheist.

It's quite simple - needing airy fairy ontology to deny apparently.

[Tonus]

I am arguing for the potential for people to kill in the process of trying to make others atheist.

So what you are asking is, is it possible for an atheist to do something utterly insane? Yes, that's certainly possible.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

I have not seriously responded to his statements on that because he is wrong so many ways from Sunday in so few words I can't find a place to begin.

First one has to agree that Gulags with an average seven year life span is equivalent to murder as during WWII labor camps were considered equivalent to murder. Second he went after the religious hierarchy which was also against him and it is unclear who struck first blood. Third it was all started by Lenin not Stalin and Lenin gets credit for some 8 million all on his own. Fourth would a church which opposed the Tzar have been treated any differently? Should church engaged in treason against the crown be treated as Henry VIII treated them?

There are more numbers before focusing the discussion to what he is saying.

A bottom line is, in the same loose terms used towards the Nazis Stalin was worse. However there is essentially no reason to involve religion in it nor was it a significant fraction of the dead solely for reason of religion.

And to make it more complicated going back centuries there were three power centers in the Russian empire, almost like the three branches of the US government. They were the political, the secret police and the army. In war they all worked together but there were checks and balances like political officers in the army. Stalin had only the political. By head count the Jews had the secret police.

All three were constantly at war with each other. There were occasional tippings of one side over the other such as the 1930s political purges of the army and the 1950s political purges of the KGB mainly for their support of Israel after Stalin rejected the idea and Israel turned to France and England for political alignment. Their 1956 war against Stalin's ally Egypt was not good for KGB and the majority Jews running it. Jews were no persecuted for their religion but for the political support of a foreign country aligned with the West.

And that is just for starters.

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So you finally accept that just as some people can kill in the spread of theism that someone can kill in the name of atheism?

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Or kill to spread atheism..

Stalin continued Lenin's policy in response to the Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy's treason against the revolution. When the Tzar was overthrown all of the lands and holdings of the church were forfeit. It is unclear who started the conflict.

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He tried to stop people believe g in God through a massive ovine red propaganda campaign.

Not greater than the pro-god campaign of the Orthodox Church. In fact probably quite understaffed in comparison.

[Minimalist]

So you finally accept that just as some people can kill in the spread of theism that someone can kill in the name of atheism?

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Or kill to spread atheism..

Stalin killed his own generals because they failed in Finland.

He killed fellow communists because they disagreed with him on some point of revolutionary dogma.

He killed millions of Ukrainians because they resisted collectivization.

What you have failed to show is a single instance where Stalin - prick that he was - killed anyone solely because they believed in some god.

Punishing the Russian Orthodox church because of its secular abuses and oppression of the people does not count. The fuckers deserved that.

[Dawud]

It's not logical but it's a possibility you won't see from under the sand

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It wasn't his sole task but he did it

[Soyouz]

Stalin did not kill anyone due to the absence of his belief solely to cause other people to disbelieve. He did it because he wanted power which the church had/has and as he wanted himself to become a God in people's eyes other deities are threats which he wanted to get rid of.

[Minimalist]

In the US if the cops shoot a bank robber there is a statistically good possibility that the robber was some variant of xtian. Nonetheless, they did not shoot him because he was a xtian - they shot him because he was a bank robber.

You have trouble seeing shades of gray, DWD. It is a problem with the deeply brainwashed. Not everything is about fucking religion.

[Dawud]

You are all missing the point

Aside from making Stalin a theist

YOU ARE BEING FOOLISH IN DENYING EVEN THE POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE -COULD- KILL IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE SOMEONE ATHEIST.

Make a strawman of my argument all you like but really you just think the sun shines out of the arse of atheists.

Stalin was an atheist and he tried to make his country deny the existence of God - it's only your attempt to make theism the root of all evil that leads you to deny that people react well and can react badly if they want others to be atheists.