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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 1:59 am
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2013 at 2:02 am by fr0d0.)
"The tree of knowledge of good and evil". You think that's a regular tree?
The story is descriptive, not prescriptive. It describes the nature of humanity.
Sacrifice is the human answer to his shortfall. He cannot be perfect, but he can make a sacrifice to try to atone for his imperfections.
The request to sacrifice his own son was a test of faith.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 2:04 am
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2013 at 2:05 am by littleendian.)
(June 5, 2013 at 1:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: "The tree of knowledge of good and evil". You think that's a regular tree? That's how it was described, like a regular old tree with a regular old apple and a regular old serpent on it. Regular!
(June 5, 2013 at 1:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The story is descriptive, not prescriptive. It describes the nature of humanity. Yes, one can bend over backwards and try to see it that way, possible, but I could do the same thing with any cheap old Tom Clancy novel, or The Hobbit, or whatever. Where there's a will there's a way.
(June 5, 2013 at 1:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Sacrifice is the human answer to his shortfall. He cannot be perfect, but he can make a sacrifice to try to atone for his imperfections. Ah, okay, makes perfect sense. NOT. I'm not trying to hijack this to another animal-rights thread but killing someone else is not atonement, now killing oneself, that's better and it also ends those "imperfections" you were talking about. But that's just me, your milage may worry (sic).
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 2:16 am
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2013 at 2:16 am by fr0d0.)
Yes, the tree is a metaphor. It would seem that these ancient goat herders could teach you a thing or two about poetry.
Bending over backwards seems to be your determined intention. I'm quite interested in entertaining crackpot ideas. So please don't be shy.
Yes well it's supposed to be sacrifice of self. The poor animal gets it, sure. But it was your possession (sic) to give up. Nowadays you'd more likely sacrifice time or money. And if you were Christian the sacrifice would be already made forgoing the need for any bloodshed/ God already sacrificed himself on your behalf.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 3:49 am
(June 5, 2013 at 2:16 am)fr0d0 Wrote: God already sacrificed himself on your behalf. No, Jesus was killed because he was a megalomaniac who claimed to be the son of God and king of the Jews, and the Jews didn't take kindly to that. Can't say I blame 'em.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 8:00 am
(June 4, 2013 at 10:55 pm)Godschild Wrote: Neither are Him stupid, go study scripture before asking such stupid questions.
Its funny how no one can give me an answer with a 'because' after it.
I don't need to study the scripture, i just need to read it.
Besides, the points i was making were based on the comments earlier and they followed logic. For some reason, the all powerful god, couldn't tell someone to rape a little girl. That is what someone said. Therefore, if he is unable to do that, he is not all powerful.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 9:14 am
(June 5, 2013 at 8:00 am)Rationalman Wrote: (June 4, 2013 at 10:55 pm)Godschild Wrote: Neither are Him stupid, go study scripture before asking such stupid questions.
Its funny how no one can give me an answer with a 'because' after it.
I don't need to study the scripture, i just need to read it.
Besides, the points i was making were based on the comments earlier and they followed logic. For some reason, the all powerful god, couldn't tell someone to rape a little girl. That is what someone said. Therefore, if he is unable to do that, he is not all powerful.
He can not because, it is outside His nature, and because He can not tempt people. This has nothing to do with omniscience, it has to do with righteousness. Refusing to abuse power does not negate omniscience. See, if you had studied scripture instead of just reading it you would have not appeared to be ignorant of the facts. Comparison the U.S. is the most powerful nuclear power, our refusal to use them does not mean we are not a great nuclear power, responsible would be a better description.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 9:28 am
Your U.S comparison sucks and is wrong. You are saying God CAN NOT, not: he refuses to. You are correct, just because the U.S refuses to use nuclear weapons does not mean they are not a great nuclear power. However, if you are trying to apply the argument it would sound a little more like this: The U.S can't use nuclear weapons (because they don't have them), therefore are not a great nuclear power.
You are also correct, it has nothing to do with omniscience. Omniscience means he is all knowing, it has nothing to do with power. You are correct again refusing to abuse power does not negate omniscience, it negates omnipotence. It has everything to do with Omnipotence. And you are telling me to study scripture?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 1:55 pm
(June 3, 2013 at 10:58 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Theists, I've gathered that the consensus on here is that God isn't omnibenevolent. Is he morally perfect though? Or is moral perfection the same as being omnibenevolent? Morally perfect is not the same as omnibenevolent. If a judge sentenced a convicted murderer to a piece of chocolate cake, that would be benevolent but immoral.
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 2:35 pm
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2013 at 2:37 pm by Ryantology.)
(June 5, 2013 at 1:55 pm)John V Wrote: (June 3, 2013 at 10:58 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Theists, I've gathered that the consensus on here is that God isn't omnibenevolent. Is he morally perfect though? Or is moral perfection the same as being omnibenevolent? Morally perfect is not the same as omnibenevolent. If a judge sentenced a convicted murderer to a piece of chocolate cake, that would be benevolent but immoral.
If a judge sentenced every firstborn child in America to death because President Obama refused to follow that judge's command to free a certain group of people from prison, would this be immoral?
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RE: Question about two possible attributes of God
June 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm
(June 5, 2013 at 2:35 pm)Ryantology Wrote: If a judge sentenced every firstborn child in America to death because President Obama refused to follow that judge's command to free a certain group of people from prison, would this be immoral? Depends on who the judge is.
Last weekend I sentenced every member of two colonies of ants to death for digging in my patio. Few people would call this immoral. However, if another ant did the same, that very well could be immoral.
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