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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:08 am
For me to believe in a god, no matter which god you choose, I would have to see actual, factual evidence of its existence. Something testable, not that stupid "look at the trees" bullshit.
If this could be done, I would believe that such a god exists, but it doesn't mean I'd necessarily worship it. That would only happen once it's shown itself worthy of worship. If this deity is running the world (assuming we're talking about the Abrahamic god), it's done such a crappy job of it that it's definitely not worthy of worship.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:19 am
(June 13, 2013 at 11:08 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: If this could be done, I would believe that such a god exists, but it doesn't mean I'd necessarily worship it. That would only happen once it's shown itself worthy of worship. If this deity is running the world (assuming we're talking about the Abrahamic god), it's done such a crappy job of it that it's definitely not worthy of worship.
Irrational.
I ain't going into the burning pit until the end of time because I don't agree with Thor's methodology. I'd be buying this book:
![[Image: 51RkahDAx0L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-stic..._OU01_.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51RkahDAx0L._BO2%2C204%2C203%2C200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click%2CTopRight%2C35%2C-76_AA278_PIkin4%2CBottomRight%2C-43%2C22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:36 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 11:39 am by Simon Moon.)
(June 13, 2013 at 1:04 am)vangirl23 Wrote: I'm just really curious as to what some of the answers are so I'm putting this out there: What would it take for you to believe God is real?
For me, there would have to be demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid/sound logic to support the existence of a god.
My atheism is purely a provisional position. I will continue to disbelieve as long as the above criteria is not met.
What would it take for you to believe that one of the other many gods that you don't believe exists, is real?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:42 am
(June 13, 2013 at 11:19 am)Rahul Wrote: Irrational.
I ain't going into the burning pit until the end of time because I don't agree with Thor's methodology. I'd be buying this book:
That's all fine & good, but what do you do when this god starts commanding you to kill everyone in another country down to every last man, woman, and child?
It's not like that's ever happened before *cough* old testament *cough*
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:47 am
(June 13, 2013 at 11:19 am)Rahul Wrote: I ain't going into the burning pit until the end of time because I don't agree with Thor's methodology.
I do not buy into the whole I better believe just in case there is a God and a Hell to which He will send me.
Psychopathic corporate people, who I place on the same playing field as a tyrannical God, and I do not get along very well because I have never been one to put up with their crap.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:48 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 11:51 am by Rahul.)
(June 13, 2013 at 11:42 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: That's all fine & good, but what do you do when this god starts commanding you to kill everyone in another country down to every last man, woman, and child?
It's not like that's ever happened before *cough* old testament *cough*
Well let's be honest here. If a god somehow really did exist he wouldn't be like anything the abrahamic god. He'd just kill whoever he wanted if he was so inclined. Silly to think an all-powerful god would need my inefficient butt to take care of it for him.
(June 13, 2013 at 11:47 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I do not buy into the whole I better believe just in case there is a God and a Hell to which He will send me.
That's an entirely different scenario than what I'm talking about. I wouldn't go for that either.
What I'm talking about is no "just in case there is" situation. I'm talking about if you had irrefutable proof standing in front of you.
That changes things a bit.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 11:55 am
(June 13, 2013 at 11:48 am)Rahul Wrote: That changes things a bit.
Not for me. A tyrannical god is still just that, and unworthy of worship.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 12:10 pm
(June 13, 2013 at 11:55 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Not for me. A tyrannical god is still just that, and unworthy of worship.
So you're going to burn alive for an eternity over a principle?
That's very noble of you, Maelstrom. It's also batshit insane, but noble.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 12:28 pm
I'm with Rahul, mainly.
I suppose a sufficiently wise and powerful god or God would know what would convince me and if such a being exists, it is more than welcome to do so, if it's interested. On a practical level, I have no way to distinguish between God and an alien with advanced technology hidden out of sight.
On a lesser scale, a real angel, demon, ghost, or jinn would be enough to force me to re-evaluate many of my positions in light of that information. Again, it would be hard to know what it REALLY is; but at least it would be something.
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RE: For non-Christians: What would it take?
June 13, 2013 at 12:45 pm
It'd have to be a change in the condition of the very Universe we're in and the nature of life itself: suffering would be non-existent, life would be self-sustainable upon non-life exclusively ... in short, reality would look very different.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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