If these resident theists really talk to god..

[Faith No More]

A challenge to his beliefs is not a challenge for one to think?

But you didn't challenge. You simply declared, which was done with sanctimony wrapped in arrogance and boiled in pure dickishness, I might add.

You'll never challenge someone's beliefs by being a pious twat.

[Cyberman]

What? You do realize that you're currently talking to a Portuguese, American, British and Finnish moderator, don't you?

English for me, m'dear, if you don't mind. Not British. Specifically Black Country but that's only for formalwear.

[Kayenneh]

English for me, m'dear, if you don't mind. Not British. Specifically Black Country but that's only for formalwear.

Darn! I knew I would get it wrong! I'm sorry, love

[Mister Agenda]

Well done for proving Fidel's point, but I'm sure he won't thank you for it. Do you really need me to tell you where to stick your preachy ambulance-chasing sermonising - and against the family of another member? Not cool, not in the slightest. I suggest you apologise immediately.

for what?

what was the crime here?

Remove any emotional attachments, and look at what is said. Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy.

I too was on my death bed, and I know when the darkness consumes you, one will cry out for mercy.

No. You only know that YOU cried out for mercy. You're not entitled to speak for anyone else about their experience with dying.

I further extended the idea that even if this man did not cry out infront of fidel, that does not mean he has not cried out thus giving fidel some hope of assureance that his Father was not automatically doomed to Hell.

You speculated wildly.

So again stimy tell me what I should be sorry for?

Treating someone's tragedy as an opportunity to pass on threats from your Mafia Don.

Should I be sorry that I can speak of a death bed experience??

You should be sorry you presumed to speak for the death bed experiences of others.

Should I be sorry that you think Fidel wants his dad to die an unrepentant sinner?

You should be sorry for intruding on Fidel's tragedy with anything other than support or sympathy. It's like a Hindu commenting that Fidel's dad will be reincarnated as a slug (if Hindus ever make that kind of comment). That she really believes that is what is going to happen doesn't alter the fact that it's a horribly insensitive thing to say to someone going through this.

Should I be sorry for the fact that at some point maybe fidel may have a revelation about God, become saved and then be worried about his Father?

You should be sorry for the fact that, odds are, Fidel is likely less (minisculely, but less) likely to accept such a revelation now than he was before you opened your mouth. I don't think that 'hey, that guy who was so offensive was right!' is a deathbed experience many have.

Should I be sorry for the fact that you are a quick to judge douche bag looking to peresecute someone who does not believe as you believe, and jumps at the oppertunity to make those who oppose your world views jump through hoops?

You should be sorry for the fact that you're a quick to judge douche bag who doesn't know how to behave with empathy or compassion.

Maybe help me out here to understand be a little more specific.

I hope that helped.

[bladevalant546]

I have one question, why is it considered mentally ill if you talk to yourself, but not mentally ill if you talk to god whom is also is with in your head?

[Mister Agenda]

How is your perception of my response any different than how I was treated after I shared my battle with a deadly virus?

I'm pretty sure it was the other things you said that got a negative reaction.

You USED your father's condition as a panic stop to the conversation, and as leverage to try and dismiss everything I said.

Is THAT what they call 'giving a counter-example' in your world?

Which was based on my own observation dealing directly with death.

Which doesn't give you a special license to speak for other dying people.

This coupled with your response above makes you a terriable person and a hipocrite to boot.

You gloated at the way his father will have to submit to your God when he dies. You deserve everything you get.

You DID the VERY THING you Accused me of Doing!!!

He gloated at the idea you will have to submit to his God after you die?

But your not pissing all over what could potentialy be a made up condition concerning my Father, or what amounts to a hear say account of someone elses situation.. you've pissed all over what I had to say about my own dealings with HIV. with again what amounts to a hear say account of what you think your dad may or may not be going through.

Word-salad. Were you crying when you typed this?

...and further more I did not wish your Father ill. I told you he could still be potentially be Heaven bound, but because you and stimy look for only the ill will in others, you found the ill will you were looking for.

Plus the part about him converting to your religoin after he's dead.

Too bad you don't have the sense to see it is your own ill will looking back at you.

No matter how often it happens, you'll always be mystified at why people take little things like opining on the after-death fate of their loved ones or accusing American troops of lying because you didn't like the sign they were holding, as crossing a line. It's because you have a problem with boundaries. I don't know whether it's because people with such problems are attracted to fundamentalism or because fundamentalism causes people to become detached from conventional mores, but this isn't the first time I've come across it. Most recently it was 'Aren't you glad your mommy didn't get an abortion?' to a little girl in a wheelchair.

see above, and no i do not know who lucky is.

She is another counter-example against your claim to knowledge about what 'one' thinks about and does when 'one' is dying or thinks 'one' is dying. I am, too. Triple bypass at the age of 41. Open heart surgery and nine hours on an iron lung. Woke up strapped down with a breathing tube down my throat. Praying never crossed my mind.

I have prayed once, since then, though. My father is very devout, and for his sake I prayed that God would show me he is real, in some way I can believe, even if it's just the right words from the right person. If God is real, I want to know it. But I don't make a habit of asking things I don't believe in for favors.

---

...What if I am indeed right. what is worse? failing to offer a platitude? or letting someone think their beloved Father is burning in Hell?

Fidel thinking his father would be burning in hell was never on the table.

The worse thing that you could do if you're right is present your ideas in an offensive way that would make it less likely for people to listen to them.

In future, instead of 'striving for neutrality', maybe you should try striving for decency.

---

I am surprised to see Drich going as deep as he's going. Hell, he might just make GC jealous.

He did the same thing trying to put down soldiers. He's never seen a hole that didn't need more digging.

[Drich]

Do you really expect me to rehash everthing for you personaly Mrajenda?

You missed the bus. Maybe wait around a little while I'm sure there will be another one along shortly.

[Mister Agenda]

So... what? Now you're trying to cast doubt on whether Fidel cares about his dad? Seriously?

What I said was your defending what Fidel's dad has or has not done is at best a 3 hand account. If Fidel can only give a second hand account of his father's deeds then how can you accuratly repersent what this man has or has not done in his life?

I can't, so therefore I don't speculate on it based on things Fidel hasn't said about him.

have you faced certain death?

No one living has. If they're alive, their death can't have been that certain, can it have? I've experienced induced clinical death, though.

Only the truly sucidal embrace death.

I'm not in any hurry to become dead, I don't embrace it, but since I've tried it, I've lost all fear of it. As long as it's not painful I have no complaints, and if it IS painful, once I'm dead I'll have no complaints.

All others will do what they can to live.

Are you saying that every person will do whatever it takes to survive, no matter what?

If one accepts his death, then there is a final appeal to simply cover his bases the best that he can. That is all that was said.

And one problem with saying that is that it simply isn't true. Here's a hint: you're not going to cover your bases unless you believe, at least a little, that they need to be covered. Did you put in a good word with Shiva, just in case?

I did not mention either as to again persent a netural oppertunity to fill in what you wanted to see. I treated this situation no differently than how I was treated when I shared my HIV experience, but suddenly I am the monster.

Because the difference between how you were treated and how you treated Fidel had to do with the other things YOU said that Fidel didn't.

Maybe you all hypocrits should revisit some of the things you told me.

I don't know if I weighed in the last time, my recollection is vague in spots, but I imagine I would say something like 'I'm sorry you thought you had HIV, but it sounds like it was a false positive'. You're entitled to sympathy for being scared, but you're not entitled to have your claim treated as true because you had a bad experience (which you survived, by the way). I strongly, strongly doubt that you said: I thought I was dying because I was sick and tested postive for HIV; stopped there, and everyone jumped on you for having been ill. And I personally only expect so much sympathy for a heart surgery I survived years ago...it's not like my dad is dying.

Again what I shared was not hear say. It was a first hand account from the person who experienced the situation.

It was a little story about you that didn't have anything to do with Fidel's dad except to get in a 'he's sure going to believe when he's dead!' moment.

How was that any different that what I did with my own story?

Fidel's story was a simple counterpoint (one of many, that you never seem to acknowledge or remember) to your claim. You used your story for far more. My near-death experience doesn't trump yours...but it does show that not everyone's experience is the same.

Again I shared my experiences with you all not to gain sympathy, but to talk about lie, death and what is beyond, as the subject of the conversation was already headed in that direction.

Which is fine as long as you didn't use it to make claims about what other people's experiences with death are like.

Why should any of your experiences demand a greater respect than my own?

Because none of us are claiming that YOUR experience has to be like our own.

I was told I should have died from AIDS, that I should Pray that God give me AIDS again, that my whole family should die of AIDS... Where were the self righteous defenders of pop morality that day?

Maybe they lost sympathy when you offered to pray that they get a deadly disease.

Where was Stimbo and the verbal warnings then?

I think the person who first brought praying for people to get a deadly illness up would be the one who has to worry about Stimbo.

Why was it ok for me to be blasted for trying to share a mirical, and it is not OK to say that a man on his death bed (Lest he is a Misotheist) will cry out to God?

You poor, poor thing. You've actually convinced yourself that you were berated for trying to share a miracle instead of offering out deadly diseases? Where's mine, by the way? It's been weeks and I feel fine. If it takes twenty years I'm liable to think your prayer that something happen to me that should kill me didn't have anything to do with it.

again from experience, I am no different. I did not treat this man's situation any worse then my own nor did I stoop to the level you 'good' people did either.

But his situation actually IS worse than your own. He's actually dying, not mistakenly under the impresson that he's about to die. And he's not here to speak for himself or defend himself.

I gave him the same respect as I gave myself sharing a similar situation. What more is there to give?

Simple human compassion for someone whose father is dying. You didn't have to be nice to him. You just needed to leave his dad out of it.

---

I have one question, why is it considered mentally ill if you talk to yourself, but not mentally ill if you talk to god whom is also is with in your head?

It depends on how you communicate with God. If it's by speaking aloud or telepathy, most agree you're okay. If it's through your cellphone or by courier, most think you're crazy.

[Cyberman]

[Jackalope]

It was not a warning from me - it was a warning from a Staff quorum consensus. All opinions are considered in these matters. You give me too much credit in the influence I wield.

We have to assess each report on a case by case merit. The Staff have the right to determine how the rules are to be interpreted in each case.

BUT THERE ARE NO RULES!!!
Maybe it's because most of you are from england?? IDK BUT Here In The US. You Can't say Your Enforcing a Rule Of Law If No Such Rule Exists!

This is not a court. We are not law enforcement. This is a privately run entity (located in Europe, and owned by a citizen of UK, incidentally). The rules are what they are, they're enforced how they are, and if you don't like it, you can lump it. I happen to be in the US, but your notions of how things run in the US simply do not apply here, by virtue of a) this isn't a US entity, and b) it's a private entity.

You aren't the first person to complain that they were warned not to behave in a dickish manner, nor will you be the last.

That would be like someone getting pulled over because the cop did not like what the person in the car was linstening to on the radio. How is the cop enforcing the law if there is no law concerning what he himself decides to govern?!?!

a) We aren't cops.
b) We aren't enforcing the law.

What we are doing is providing a forum where people with divergent opinions can meet and engage in (sometimes heated) discussions. Preferably without dragging the participants loved ones and their personal issues into the discussion to make cheap points. Everyone's given a fair amount of latitude here in throwing around insults, but what you did was reprehensible, and it matters not one bit who you are, or what your religion is. If someone were to make a similar crack about your wife, I'd be here defending you just as vociferously.

Then when no effort was made I escaliated the situation by illustrating how what I was being accused of was par for the course when it is the board against a Christian.

Feel free to report any such incidents you think are on par with this one. As far as I am aware, there has only been one other incident remotely similar to this, and that was someone who claimed to be an atheist (but was likely a troll) against someone who is one. In that case, no action was taken (though I personally thought that was a mistake, and still do).

But please, by all means, point out the legion of examples of people using sick family members as fodder to score cheap debate points. You find them, I will personally take it upon myself to champion that cause - because I find the tactic to be disgusting and so far beneath the standards of civil discourse that it's beneath contempt.

Your move.