Virgin Mary, Ark of the Covenant

[Phatt Matt s]

There are some interesting similarities, but I actually don't buy that any one of the other ancient deities was THE precursor of Jesus. While the Egyptian saying "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" was known to be copied (directly) from the Egyptian text, the Jesus that Paul invented was unique. (He did say he got his gospel "from no man" ... but from an hallucination.) It does have to do with Mithraism, (which was a form of Zoroastrianism) of which Tarsus (Paul's birthplace) *just happened* to be a center. It's a bit "obtuse" but it has to do with the concept "purification". In Hebrew culture, "purification" was an *external* (ritual-cleansing) concept. In Zorosastrian/Mithraism, it was internal (spiritual-cleanliness). They were very different. The Hebrews did not believe in immortality until it developed during the Apocalyptic period, after the Exile, when family units were disrupted, and the notion of "individualism" become important. Thus the Hebrew concept was CHANGED by Paul. It's some evidence he cooked up at least part of what came to be called "Christianity".

That is one reason I seek wisdom not just from Christianity. There is wisdom in all philosophers including unbleivers, Jews, Imams, wisdom from Buddha and other Buddhist Saints, Daoists, Confucianism, and wisdom/virtue from the Catholic Saints as well.

I have to have a strength and joy that is detached from and not shaken by material possessions and favorable external circumstances. Many of the Saints were able to die peacefully because their faith and hope was never shaken neither was their joy. I admire someone who has the balls to die for their beliefs.

I admire an atheist even more when they sacrifice, suffer, and die for what they believe to be true.

[Bucky Ball]

the Catholic Saints as well.

The Catholic saints are very funny.
See "Saint Misbehavin".
http://www.campuscircle.com/review.cfm?r=9459
I pray to St. Dude, St. Coochie Galore, (patron of sacred sluts),
and St Francis the Sissy.

[Phatt Matt s]

the Catholic Saints as well.

The Catholic saints are very funny.
See "Saint Misbehavin".
http://www.campuscircle.com/review.cfm?r=9459
I pray to St. Dude, St. Coochie Galore, (patron of sacred sluts),
and St Francis the Sissy.

And you corrected me on Grammar?

Also, I was far more misbehaved when I had no Religious beliefs. I've seen this a lot in others especially in the AA 12 step program.

I grew up around many bigots and trouble makers because I had been to correctional facilities. The ones who were most cruel to others, had no deep religious convictions. If they were to adopt them, it would be strictly for the purpose of sowing discord, and justifying the persecution of those who did not have those beliefs.

I do believe there are people who become Christian/Muslim/Jewis/other so that they can better justify their hatred for homosexuality or some other "Vice" people have that they despise, and consider themselves better than others. They want to be special "Righteous" "High and mighty" .

These kind of Religious people were the worst enemies of Christ.

They were dicks beforehand and found Religion as something they could abuse in order to be a more destructive and "justified" Dick!

[Bucky Ball]

The Catholic saints are very funny.
See "Saint Misbehavin".
http://www.campuscircle.com/review.cfm?r=9459
I pray to St. Dude, St. Coochie Galore, (patron of sacred sluts),
and St Francis the Sissy.

And you corrected me on Grammar?

Also, I was far more misbehaved when I had no Religious beliefs. I've seen this a lot in others especially in the AA 12 step program.

I grew up around many bigots and trouble makers because I had been to correctional facilities. The ones who were most cruel to others, had no deep religious convictions. If they were to adopt them, it would be strictly for the purpose of sowing discord, and justifying the persecution of those who did not have those beliefs.

I do believe there are people who become Christian/Muslim/Jewis/other so that they can better justify their hatred for homosexuality or some other "Vice" people have that they despise, and consider themselves better than others. They want to be special "Righteous" "High and mighty" .

These kind of Religious people were the worst enemies of Christ.

They were dicks beforehand and found Religion as something they could abuse in order to be a more destructive and "justified" Dick!

Hard to be an "enemy" of someone who never existed / ancient meaningless title ("christos"). Why would YOU accept Yeshua as the "christos" if most Jews (who invented the concept) don't accept that he represents that person ?
As for "being more misbehaved" goes ... that's just Utilitarianism.
"Religion is good because it's useful".
Slippery slope that Utilitarianism.

Christos : The Anointed one
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

[Phatt Matt s]

I think him being the most influential person in Human History is evidence that He was the Messiah. Also, he did meet some of the Old Testament Prophecies of the "Messiah". Especially in Isaiah. Paul was a very Educated Jew who knew His Scripture perhaps as good as any other Pharisee or Saducee.

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I mock the Bible and Christ all the time so am not quite sure why I'm zealously defending what I myself often feel is bullshit

Actually, I'll tell ya why. It's because of how arrogantly you state your views and the views of the authors you love so much as if it is a fact that is known with complete certainty and then you go so far as to talk like it's common knowledge.

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When it comes to seeing "visions," I just think people see and hear what they wish. And to create cheesy tourist attractions out of supposedly "sacred" events tells me all I need to know about their validity.

It is not unlike the paranormal or UFO "sightings." People might see something "else" or hear something "else" and because a place has been dubbed as "haunted," will assume what they saw was of the paranormal variety.

I know that Fatima story, and unfortunately, it is a story just like the Bible.

You glossed over my comment about research showing how it wasn't uncommon for people prior to Jesus' time, to think that gods were impregnating virgins.

It really wasn't anything new as Christianity would have us believe. (the idea of gods impregnating mortals)

I actually recently spoke of Krishna, Horus, Mithras, and the details of their similarities to Christ.

Fatima was nothing like UFO sightings or Bible stories. Thousands of Skeptics and anti-Religoius in a communist Government went there and wrote about the miracle.

The Children at Fatima were kidnapped, placed in an adult jail, and threatened with torture and death. They never denied it. They, prior to the miracle, were also persecuted by family and friends because everyone thought they were liars.

Unlike the Bible which was thousands of years ago, the miracle of Fatima took place in the 20th century and there was media and photographers at the event. We also have pictures and documents on the significant people linked to the Fatima incident including the anti-Catholic People who worked for the Government to try and put an end to it.

The resurgence of Faith in Portugal after the miracle lead to the fall of the Portugese Communist Government.
Mary also told the Children about future events including a light illuminated by an unknown light prior to the punishment of a second and greater war than the one that was taking place (WW1) during the apparitions.

I don't know that there was something Divine behind Fatima. What I do know is that it isn't just a "story".

[Bucky Ball]

I think him being the most influential person in Human History is evidence that He was the Messiah. Also, he did meet some of the Old Testament Prophecies of the "Messiah". Especially in Isaiah. Paul was a very Educated Jew who knew His Scripture perhaps as good as any other Pharisee or Saducee.

Being "influential" was never one of criteria. You have not established what "influential" means. I could come up with a list of FAR more "influential" people depending on the criteria. You just moved the goalposts. NONE of your (so-called) prophecies, (and I still have not accepted your fallacy of prophecy as fortune - telling) included being "influential".
Is the Kingdom of David reestablished with a messianic KING ? Nope.
Jews don't think he was the messiah. They invented the idea.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

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Fatima was nothing like UFO sightings or Bible stories. Thousands of Skeptics and anti-Religoius in a communist Government went there and wrote about the miracle.

The Children at Fatima were kidnapped, placed in an adult jail, and threatened with torture and death. They never denied it. They, prior to the miracle, were also persecuted by family and friends because everyone thought they were liars.

Unlike the Bible which was thousands of years ago, the miracle of Fatima took place in the 20th century and there was media and photographers at the event. We also have pictures and documents on the significant people linked to the Fatima incident including the anti-Catholic People who worked for the Government to try and put an end to it.

The resurgence of Faith in Portugal after the miracle lead to the fall of the Portugese Communist Government.
Mary also told the Children about future events including a light illuminated by an unknown light prior to the punishment of a second and greater war than the one that was taking place (WW1) during the apparitions.

I don't know that there was something Divine behind Fatima. What I do know is that it isn't just a "story".

Prove it.

[Phatt Matt s]

Do you believe Paul existed and that he wrote the epistles attributed to Him

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there does exist an ancient prophecy saying the messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/micah_5_2.htm

[truthBtold]

Do you believe Paul existed and that he wrote the epistles attributed to Him

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there does exist an ancient prophecy saying the messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/micah_5_2.htm

Alot of claims.. no evidence..
there does exist nuts in a sac

[Bucky Ball]

Do you believe Paul existed and that he wrote the epistles attributed to Him

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there does exist an ancient prophecy saying the messiah would be born in Bethlehem.

No. We know there was a Saul of Tarsus. He wrote some of the letters attributed to him. Not all. There are significant philosophical differences among them. We know more than one person wrote using his name, (which was not uncommon at the time).
https://www.edx.org/course/harvardx/harv...ianity-927
Maybe you should actually get educated about the topics you want to post on.

"there does exist an ancient prophecy saying the messiah would be born in Bethlehem."
Irrelevant. Are you saying ANY person born in Bethlehem is a messiah ? No. There was a JOB the messiah had to get done. Jesus didn't get it done.
Therefore your sooth-saying cannot refer to him. It HAS to refer to ONLY the person who gets the messiah job done. He didn't.

Furthermore :
Deuteronomy 18:10
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft"

[Phatt Matt s]

There are many secular historians who lived in the century after the death of Jesus Christ who confirmed his existence. Here are some of them:

Flavius Josephus
“Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. 100), was a 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian and hagiographer of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD and the First Jewish–Roman War, which resulted in the Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70.”

His most important works were The Jewish War (c. 75) and Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94). The Jewish War recounts the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation (66–70).
Josephus was a Jew who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Christianity. In The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:
“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on...e_passages

Tacitus
Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.

Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) and others
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-h...us-christ/

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Do you believe Paul existed and that he wrote the epistles attributed to Him

---

there does exist an ancient prophecy saying the messiah would be born in Bethlehem.

No. We know there was a Saul of Tarsus. He wrote some of the letters attributed to him. Not all. There are significant philosophical differences among them. We know more than one person wrote using his name, (which was not uncommon at the time).
https://www.edx.org/course/harvardx/harv...ianity-927
Maybe you should actually get educated about the topics you want to post on.

Well, it depends on who is the final authority that determines who is properly educated. Are you that authority that can make an inerrant declaration on that?